Muse Research

toddg7777 · Post by **toddg7777** » Thu May 10, 2007 4:20 pm

Good morning!

I am using both a Pro Keys 88SX and Axiom 61 to control my Receptor. I have a Yamaha expression pedal FC-7 which does not work well with the M-Audio boards (volume control on Receptor Mixer and plugs doesn't transmit full 0-127 range). I also have an M-Audio expression pedal EX-P and while this works properly, it is really flimsy. I barely touch my foot to it and it jumps. It's throw is too short and it doesn't provide enough resistance.

I need an expression pedal that works with M-Audio equipment but has a heavier feel and a longer throw like the Yamaha FC-7.

Any ideas? Alternatively, should the FC-7 work with M-Audio stuff but I just have the settings incorrect somehow?

Thank you!!

thesoundsmith · Post by **thesoundsmith** » Thu May 10, 2007 6:41 pm

Any standard volume pedal with a knob for controlling range will work fine. I use Roland EV10s (hard to find, but solid - don't us the EV5, it works but the throw is too short for accurate control.) Ernie Ball makes a great one, for example.

toddg7777 · Post by **toddg7777** » Fri May 11, 2007 3:49 am

Soundsmith, did some looking and it seems that there are EV5's o'plenty but no EV10s. Do you have a model number on the Ernie Ball product? I could only find volume pedals but no expression pedals. Do you have any view on the Korg pedals? They look well built.

Thanks.

thesoundsmith · Post by **thesoundsmith** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:52 pm

Volume IS expression in the pedal world, all it is is a variable pot that gets assigned in the Receptor or keyboard.
EV10s are no lnger made, look on eBay, that's how I find them. But there is no need, ANY volume pedal with a standard configuration will work fine. I like the Ball design, real straight-forward and easy to service. But I don't own any of them. Korg should be fine if the throw is sufficient, but I haven't played one.

toddg7777 · Post by **toddg7777** » Fri May 11, 2007 6:09 pm

Thanks, very much.

toddg7777 · Post by **toddg7777** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:08 am

Okay, next question

Just got an Ernie Ball mono volume pedal (model # 6166). Great pedal but when I hook it up to both the Axiom 61 and the Prokeys 88sx and set expression on each board to transmit CC #007, I can get the channel volume on Receptor to go to zero but at full forward, it never gets to the top. Don't know how high it gets but it looks like about 100 of 127 based upon the screen.

There is a volume swell switch on the pedal but I tried both settings and it doesn't change the behavior. The Axiom is not set to limit the upper-end of the CC range for the expression input.

My cheapo M-audio expression pedal gives full range when plugged into the same input on both boards.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Todd

thesoundsmith · Post by **thesoundsmith** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:07 am

Your Ernie Ball pedal is not reaching 0 ohms resistance, probably the pot needs to be re-adjusted. You want the pot fully open at the top of the pedal throw. You emay need to work the pot around a bit to make it work, but it should wourk just great.

Briggity · Post by **Briggity** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:11 am

Standard volume pedals often need to be connected using an insert cable in order to work as expression pedals. If you have one lying around, try it: Stereo (TRS) end goes into the keyboard, then the two TS send/return plugs into the input and output of the pedal. You may need to swap them around if things are responding incorrectly. Pedals with 25k pots are probably best.

gizmostatic · Post by **gizmostatic** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:02 pm

wow .. a standard audio volume pedal can be used to trigger midi CC? WTF have I been for the past few years?

toddg7777 · Post by **toddg7777** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:48 pm

I wasn't aware of the insert cable concept and I don't have one of those cables - actually, I don't know that I've ever seen one.

According to Ernie Ball, the pot in the pedal is not adjustable.

Yesterday, I spoke with Sweetwater, Ernie Ball and M-Audio tech support. The conclusion at this stage - which is to be run by engineers at M-Audio - was that 250K resistance in my pedal is overloading the expression jack and some of the resistance is remaining in the pedal, thereby keeping it from getting to zero resistance. If this is indeed the case, I can swap the Ernie Ball 6166 with a Junior version of the same pedal but with a 25K pot.

I hope to hear back from M-Audio by week's end and I will report back to this topic.

thesoundsmith · Post by **thesoundsmith** » Wed May 16, 2007 5:14 pm

Briggity, what pedals have 25K pots? All the ones I've used have at least 100L, usually 1M or better. A lower resistance would be preferable, but I haven't seen ay pedals like that.

toddg7777 · Post by **toddg7777** » Wed May 16, 2007 5:57 pm

This is the one I will be purchasing if M-Audio confirms that the resistance is the problem: http://www.amazon.com/Ernie-Ball-Junior ... B0002GZ05C

gizmostatic · Post by **gizmostatic** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:48 pm

so i know i'm completely jumping in here, but i'm a bit fascinated .. so can any "volume" pedal can work (at least in theory) as a midi CC expression pedal? I happen to have an old Boss FV-200 (stereo) .. resistance issues aside ..

toddg7777 · Post by **toddg7777** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:23 pm

Okay, got word back from M-Audio. They say that the resistance that the expression jack wants to see is 10 ohms and the further you get away from that the greater the likelihood of problems.

So it's quite possible that 25 ohms is close enough that the pedal can transmit resistance low enough to reach 127 on the MIDI scale. I have asked M-Audio to confirm that 25 ohms would be fine but I really think we are on the right track here.

And to gizmostatic's question - I just learned this as well. I didn't know that volume pedals can be used as expression pedals but they can. Just learn from this topic that if you do use a volume pedal for expression, try to match the resistance of the pedal to that of the board as closely as possible or you could have problems.

thesoundsmith · Post by **thesoundsmith** » Thu May 17, 2007 10:33 pm

todd - are you sure he said 10 ohms? not 10K ohms? Most pedals are way higher resistance than 10 ohms, though it's not impossible. I don't own any pedals with less than 1K resistance, and they work fine in almost every board I own: Roland EV5 for my M-Audio Prokeys88sx and an EV10 for the Axiom, somethimes switch, have used these with Kurzweil, Korg, Roland and Akai stuff as well, no problems ever...

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