Integer is King? - the challenge

[living sounds]

Calm down, man. So far nobody seems to have a clue (or is willing to pass on his/her knowledge) on WHY things sounds different. I'm certainly not claiming to hear homeopathic (= nonexisting) differences in things like bypassed EQs. I'd rather like to know why many plugin compressors/reverbs/modulation effects and synths sound muddy/flat/liveless (to my ears). They certainly do in comparison to good analog hardware, and also to some extent compared to certain digital hardware. I'd like to know why - and would appreciate it even more if developers could address this problem. Just play a DX7 patch on a TG77 compared to any FM VSTi - this should make it obvious. Or try a Lexicon 300 against CSR. I'll identify the real thing in a blind test with very high accuracy (check the recent reverb comparison thread at gearslutz if you like).

just goes to show how clueless you are. what's happened here is that christian budde has nearly completely eliminated any guess work that would happen in audiophile RTAS vs TDM threads. you cannot possibly know what was done in those plugins other than what DSP processor they used (which means almost nothing to a programmer, but seems to make a world of difference to a golden ear like you).

hence clueless remarks like yours have absolute no ground in a thread like this.

It would seem you would rather keep guessing than being presented with hard evidence. your ears have already failed. only a shaky belief system remains.

[nuffink]

...gearslutz...

[living sounds]

blind test. Don't let your bias fool you.

...gearslutz...

[nuffink]

blind test. Don't let your bias fool you.

...gearslutz...

How was it blinded?

[living sounds]

Just read the thread over there (480l vs altiverb).

[nuffink]

Just read the thread over there (480l vs altiverb).

Link?

[JonHodgson]

Just read the thread over there (480l vs altiverb).

You listened to two different reverbs, using two competely different algorithms, and when you could hear a difference you concluded it was down to one of them being hardware?

That's like tasting minestroni and oxtail and concluding that the reason they taste different is that one chef used sea salt.

[living sounds]

You know how to do a search, do you?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end ... 6-0-a.html

[nuffink]

Just read the thread over there (480l vs altiverb).

You listened to two different reverbs, using two competely different algorithms, and when you could hear a difference you concluded it was down to one of them being hardware?

That's like tasting minestroni and oxtail and concluding that the reason they taste different is that one chef used sea salt.

No. I suspect he could hear the essential hardwareness of it. The same way that he can hear the essentaial integerness of stuff.

I wonder what the SI units for hardwareness and integerness are?

[nuffink]

You know how to do a search, do you?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end ... 6-0-a.html

Yeah, but it's not as if I give a shit. Certainly not enough to waste my time on it. Ta for the link though. Doubtless it'll be an education.

[Meffy]

Not SI, but there's always Moh's Scale of Mineral Hardness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale ... l_hardness

... not to be confused with Moe's Scale of Head Hardness, which involves a bench vise, another Stooge (such as Larry or Curly; aka the "measuree"), and a large iron monkey wrench.

[edit] If all else fails, I apply the wrench to my own head and iris out to black; play closing theme; credits.

[nuffink]

Number 1 is the real deal.

Congratulations! You picked the winner from a field of two (a massive evens shot) completely dissimilar devices.

I'm convinced, you really do have golden ears.

[Kingston]

Or try a Lexicon 300 against CSR. I'll identify the real thing in a blind test with very high accuracy (check the recent reverb comparison thread at gearslutz if you like).

first of all, CSR was loosely modeled on PCM90 (verified by the developer himself), which has something like a decade between the L300 model and is a different type of reverb anyway. Second of all.. uhh.. well... I'll get me coat.

...but not before I've blind tested the TB303 and SH101 and deemed them not equal.


hey, at least we've confirmed your ears still somewhat function.

[Meffy]

...but not before I've blind tested the TB303 and SH101 and deemed them not equal. :hihi:

Easy one. Everyone knows the 303 is 40-60% better. (If not for those letters complicating things, the 303 would be exactly 66 2/3% better.)

[living sounds]

OK, I'm out of here. I'd love to debate seriously about these things in order to increase the quality of plugins (I'd REALLY love to work ITB), but it's false assumptions and childish bossiness all the time. You're picking straws in my arguments instead of addressing the real issue (which you'd rather not like to be true).

Just to finish this: Nowhere have I claimed hardware or integers or the like to have a sound. Instead I've merely pointed out specific sonic attributes that are different (I'd say superior) in specific digital units to (theoretically equally capable) plugins. It goes without saying that a rational explanation has to exist for this phanomenon.

BTW, the 480l is identifiable by the way resonances occur (it sounds smoother), the reverb blends with the background, the overall sound is more one of space rather than a reverb tail and the way transients are handled (convolution smears). But Altiverb is really not bad, much better than many other plugins.