Integer is King? - the challenge

[jens]

Maybe Yamahas indeed sound better in certain ways, but that has probably nothing to do with the synthesis itself. It's rather related to the choice of converters, equalizers etc. And maybe some algorithm works better in fixed point than in floating point. However, there's no use to make up a paradigm from any of this.

That's the thing, I'm not claiming I know anything about how they achieve their sound, but I can claim they do it in a smart way, because to me it sounds better than the much worse quality that I know would be possible. That, to me, is smart. Some people seem to have a really hard time accepting that.

What Yamaha FM chip was emulated bit identically? That would have to be a very simple one.

Several are, with only detils like the noise generation exhibiting differences in others. They aren't that simple BTW, they have LFOs and envelope generators etc. They are, however, documented and with some tinkering you can hook them up to a PC to poke at them.

Not a single FM chip has been emulated bit identically, even the extremely simple ones. As for the less simple ones, those with very characteristic aliasing (which is not by chance and not random, but -designed- aliasing by Yamaha), nothing comes anywhere close, and it's no wonder why some Yamaha chips and various FM synths sound very characteristic and have favored sound. They have smart aliasing in various parts of the FM, and that's what really makes most of their sound.

What is there to prove? Do you think Yamaha's aliasing in their FM synths is stupid and that's why their synths sound good? Do you have any idea about the effort it takes to make aliasing actually compliment generated sound rather than ruin it? It doesn't take a genius to realize their aliasing is very smart, or at least far smarter than uncontrolled aliasing. There is nothing to "prove".

You've been clearly stating as being a fact that Yamaha intentionally created certain aliasing algorithms which are the source for the special sound of their FM-synths.

Don't try to twist that around.

[whyterabbyt]

But you like asking proofs for subjective things, so go ahead.

for a thing to be rated subjectively, it must exist in the first place, all i asked for some reference to that existence other than your own religious repetition of it. Again, that seems to be a major comprehension for you.

"All Fords are red"
"Prove it"
"Stop asking me for proof. Redness is subjective"

[pj geerlings]

The only hardware synth I still own is a DX7
Why?

I am too lazy too throw it off a bridge

Laziness plays a frighteningly large part in my life

[Shy]

nollock: if I consider antialiasing that sounds good smart, I say it's smart. I'd consider synths with intentional aliasing, which sounds bad, synths that have unintelligent antialiasing. It's that simple. I don't think there's anything "wrong" with my definitions, but people who like mocking others and mixing objectiveness with subjectiveness, and are maybe a little too tight assed, apparently do.

edit: meant antialiasing, obviously.

[whyterabbyt]

The only hardware synth I still own is a DX7
Why?

I am too lazy too throw it off a bridge

Laziness plays a frighteningly large part in my life

I could own a DX7 right now if someone hadnt nicked it from my work before I could.

[whyterabbyt]

nollock: if I consider aliasing that sounds good smart, I say it's smart. I'd consider synths with intentional aliasing that sounds bad, synths that have unintelligent aliasing. It's that simple.

quite a difference from your statements in the quotes jens provides.

[pj geerlings]

Shy: google "backhoe"

You are gonna need one if you keep digging yourself a bigger hole

just some friendly advice

[Shy]

You've been clearly stating as being a fact that Yamaha intentionally created certain aliasing algorithms which are the source for the special sound of their FM-synths.

Don't try to twist that around.

I'm not trying to. It's obvious to me that they design their aliasing to sound good. That's how I see it and I've given examples why. I'm not a Yamaha spokesperson though, so if anyone thinks I am, no, I'm not.

[pj geerlings]

Get thee a Backhoe, shy!!

[Shy]

nollock: if I consider aliasing that sounds good smart, I say it's smart. I'd consider synths with intentional aliasing that sounds bad, synths that have unintelligent aliasing. It's that simple.

quite a difference from your statements in the quotes jens provides.

What difference?

[whyterabbyt]

I'm not trying to. It's obvious to me that they design their aliasing to sound good. That's how I see it and I've given examples why. I'm not a Yamaha spokesperson though, so if anyone thinks I am, no, I'm not.

"its obvious to me that Ford design their cars to be red"

[Shy]

Again a wrong analogy. Red is a color and it's hardly subjective. Unless you're really philosophical.

[whyterabbyt]

What difference?

"All Ford cars are red"
"Prove it"
"I cant prove it because redness is merely subjective"
"But you said all Fords are designed to be red"
"I think they all sorta look red, so Ford must have done that deliberately."

[Shy]

You're beginning to make even less sense.

[whyterabbyt]

Again a wrong analogy. Red is a color and it's hardly subjective.

Oh dear god.

So when is red not red but purple instead?