The "Zebra2 plays Virus" challenge

[fgimian]

Check out these particular sounds (I compiled my favorites from the vengeance audio demos).

I really doubt that any native VSTi can do any of these sounds, but I'd love to be proven wrong

http://www.savefile.com/files/943297

1: some sort of hard lead, the way this attacks is just incredible
2: a very strong bassline which really sounds like there's some vintage compression going on ... could he be lying on his site about audio processing?
3: similar to 2, wow, the attack
4: a wicked bassline, the phaser just sits perfectly, or is that some sort of parallel filter combo ? not sure
5: again a very snappy lead synth, the way the attack does it's thing really stands out
6: background chord kinda thing, huge and rich, just sounds it was pulled from a trance record
7: the bell pad, wowee, gorgeous, lush
8: a trancy lead, this one intruiges me because the EQing / sound is quite different and the filter sounds plain awesome
9: phaser type chords, wow this phaser really rocks and again, you just feel that attack of the sound
10: a really creepy pad thingy, wow, it still has a bite which I love

Cheers
Fots

[Urs]

So these are dry examples without compression?

[Urs]

By using the in-built phaser, Urs!

Okay - mine doesn't have a built-in phaser

[MitchK1989]

The "virus sound" comes in large part from the insane amount of FX built in... Perhaps we'd get closer by trying to find a phaser plugin that sounds like the virus phaser

[fgimian]

So these are dry examples without compression?

Well I grabbed the samples from 3 audio clips. The comments under each of the clips says...

Clip 1
http://www.vengeance-sound.de/eng/DetailsTSX.html

All effects are from Virus. No external gear used.

Clip 2
http://www.vengeance-sound.de/eng/DetailsInc2.html

A Cubase Reverb32 was used, all other FX are from the Virus.

Clip 3
http://www.vengeance-sound.de/eng/DetailsInc3.html

Some Reverb32/ModDelay added sometimes all other FX are from the Virus C.

It is kinda hard to believe, but still, there's something more than FX doing what we here on these samples I think.

Cheers
Fots

[MitchK1989]

...No EXTERNAL effects... There are still a shitload of internal ones...

[aMUSEd]

I really doubt that any native VSTi can do any of these sounds, but I'd love to be proven wrong

I don't see why not in principle. Lets deconstruct the possibilities.

The Virus is just a software programme in a hardware box - it's not real analog. It may (or may not) be the case that it's so well written no-one has managed to create something as good up until now but that doesn't mean it's not possible does it? The hardware aspect of the Virus cannot be a million miles away from what can be found in a decent DAW with a high quality soundcard so there's nothing magical going on there - after all there is a DSP powered version so that in itself eliminates much of the hardware that is inside the Virus and probably leaves us with the DSP itself and maybe the DA convertors. Well a decent soundcard, maybe like a Scope, RME or Lynx, should have converters just as good if not better and are able to run at negligible latency and the DSP at the end of the day is just a computer chip (PPC Motorola if I'm not mistaken? Quite old really. Surely there's nothing special about that compared to say an Intel chip?).

So what we are left with is good programming. So why is it not possible again?

[Urs]

Some Reverb32/ModDelay added sometimes all other FX are from the Virus C.

It is kinda hard to believe, but still, there's something more than FX doing what we here on these samples I think.

To be honest, it is very hard to believe. Just listen to the way the delay and reverb pop back in on decay/release. This compression-style-whatever-it-is is close to ducking on some examples.

Can anyone with Cubase check out if the Moddelay/Reverb32 have a built-in sidechain compressor?

[Howard]

Can anyone with Cubase check out if the Moddelay/Reverb32 have a built-in sidechain compressor?

I do know that Mr Schleis is a side-chain compression freak, and I guess he uses it on much more than bass drum > pads!

[ericj23]

it doesnt
but the virus has a punch control - I have always suspected that it is something like a compressor

[shogger]

Some Reverb32/ModDelay added sometimes all other FX are from the Virus C.

It is kinda hard to believe, but still, there's something more than FX doing what we here on these samples I think.

To be honest, it is very hard to believe. Just listen to the way the delay and reverb pop back in on decay/release. This compression-style-whatever-it-is is close to ducking on some examples.

Can anyone with Cubase check out if the Moddelay/Reverb32 have a built-in sidechain compressor?

No, there's no compressor in these fx.

Shogger

[fgimian]

This is true, there is also an analog boost section on the Virus which could also be adding to this. Urs do you still have your hardware Virus ?

Truly, it does sound like some wicked vintage compressor is running over these sounds. They punch so punch!!

Fots

P.S.: Reverb32 / Moddelay are simply, low quality delay / reverb effects, they have absolutely no eq or compression built in.

[Urs]

Urs do you still have your hardware Virus ?

Sure. It even works again (a midi cable was broken d'oh)

The analog boost sounds pretty much just like a shelving filter. Some more power around < 100Hz - The Punch parameter does pretty much the same thing as the Click parameter in some of my filters. None of these parameters have anything to do with compression. And even if, this doesn't explain how they could compress external effects...

Can we agree that the "original" Virus examples sound suspiciously like more external effects were used than stated on the originating website? - (I mean, uhm, how will anyone seriously explain the obvious ducking/pumping of the external reverb/delay? I'm surely not the only one hearing it?)

And if so, how shall we proceed? Shall we wait until someone recreates a dry version in a Virus C? Or shall we allow for outboard gear in Zebra/plugin examples?

[Mozzer]

Maybe the solution to all this would be for Urs to commission or ask Manuel to do a Zebra bank - he'll get those types of sounds out of it it it can make them then!

Personally from what I've heard a Z3ta seems to make more Virus like sounds from the things I've heard, I've not been that impressed with the Virus-a-likie sounds from the Zebra in this thread, they are ok but no cigar..... But I must say big respect to Howard Scarr for his work on the Virus in the past, I am intrigued though now about the Zebra as I'd guess Urs is probably got a bee in his bonnet now to make the thing even better to nail the Virus sound

Oh I have a Virus C rack just for the record and I do love it.

[shogger]

Can we agree that the "original" Virus examples sound suspiciously like more external effects were used than stated on the originating website? - (I mean, uhm, how will anyone seriously explain the obvious ducking/pumping of the external reverb/delay? I'm surely not the only one hearing it?)

The rev/delay is obviously sidechain compressed. The Virus itself is compressed, too.

And if so, how shall we proceed? Shall we wait until someone recreates a dry version in a Virus C? Or shall we allow for outboard gear in Zebra/plugin examples?

I suggest that external fx are allowed. The examples are obviously processed so why not do so when comparing Zebra to other synths? It was said more than once that modern music is full of Virus and this stuff is also seriously processed.
It would be good to tell what was done externally and what was done in Zebra. Even a before/after would be enlightening.

Shogger