KVR Audio

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:03 am

Well since you guys have the hardware, is it possible to grab a few outstanding sounds and record them clean / dry for us to check out and try to match ?

I must agree that it definitely sounds like a compressor is running over some of those sounds or there is perhaps an exciter or similar there.

Not sure though since I don't have a real virus here to play with.

Cheers
Fots

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:24 am

Yeah, I'd actually prefer clean sounds. It's about matching the synth, not the production technique...

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:44 am

If I get a chance, I'll post some raw unprocessed examples later today from my Virus C if you like. Urs, PM me your email address. I sadly can't even FTP to my own web page right now.

Devon

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:56 am

DevonB wrote:If I get a chance, I'll post some raw unprocessed examples later today from my Virus C if you like. Urs, PM me your email address. I sadly can't even FTP to my own web page right now.

No big deal, I can host it... just send them to urs [at] u-he [dot] com

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:59 am

The true value of this thread is that, slowly but surely, we are learning how to l-i-s-t-e-n

(including me, of course)

(just a thought - it might be a good thing to ease off on the Darnce clichés for a page or two...

)

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:37 pm

Howard wrote:The true value of this thread is that, slowly but surely, we are learning how to l-i-s-t-e-n (including me, of course)

(just a thought - it might be a good thing to ease off on the Darnce clichés for a page or two... )

No we need more of those dance sounds

That is what the Virus is so famous for

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:40 pm

Btw. here is Adventus playing the arp example

http://www.bigsoftwares.com/mp3/arpvengance.mp3

shogger · Post by **shogger** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:44 pm

Howard wrote:The true value of this thread is that, slowly but surely, we are learning how to l-i-s-t-e-n (including me, of course)

Yes!

Howard wrote:However, it might be a good thing to ease off on the Tarnce clichés for a page or two...

Yeah, but are there any other "trademark" sounds of the Virus besides of dance/trance? Dunno ...

Shogger

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:48 pm

Not having a Virus I looked at the Wiki page which is quite interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Virus

The filter section is highly customisable, compared to most other synthesizers, with the Viruses having two independent resonant filters that can be combined in various ways to produce a unique sound. The synthesizer is somewhat a modular synthesizer with many routing possibilities, particularly in the envelopes.

However and despite the additional features, the Virus is essentially still a virtual analogue subtractive synthesizer with some limited frequency modulation capabilities. That is, a digital synthesizer designed to emulate the characteristic sound and behaviour of analogue synthesizers whilst also retaining some digital features in order to broaden its sonic palette. What separates the Virus from other analogue modelling subtractive synths in its price range is its twin multimode filter design and extensive modulation matrix, both of which are unique to the Virus. As of the Virus B OS4 update, it has 3 oscillators per voice (+1 sub oscillator per voice) with 2 filters per voice.

The basic Virus analogue modelled oscillators between the Virus A and TI are identical with the only difference being the number of voices available as well as the additional Hypersaw oscillator and digital wavetable oscillators of the Virus TI. Additionally, the raw Virus oscillators have much less high frequency content than the oscillators you will find on other subtractive virtual analogues such as the Clavia Nord Lead and Roland JP-8000. This partially explains the Virus's characteristically dark and bass heavy sound.

The twin multimode, highly resonant filter is also an important aspect of the Virus sound, which has remained unchanged between hardware revisions. The only exception is the addition of a new Moog emulation filter type that was added for the Virus C and thereafter.Both Virus filters can be connected in series, parallel or set to process 2 oscillators independently. The routable nature of the filter allows the Virus to emulate an 18 dB/octave 3 pole filter for instance, by routing a 24dB/octave 4 pole filter in series with a 12dB/octave 2 pole filter, then turning the filter balance to 3 or 9 o'clock. Connecting a 4 pole filter in series with a 2 pole filter also allows for a 36dB/octave 6 pole filter configuration, which is unique amongst similarly priced virtual analogues. The interchangeable filters allow for such things as simultaneous high pass and low pass sweeps and filter modulation effects such as automated filter sweeps whilst still leaving a filter free for manual use.

Perhaps the most integral part of the Virus specification yet to be mentioned is its modulation matrix. Every parameter on the control surface of the synth and every parameter in every sub menu can be set as a modulation destination. The Virus also has a long list of modulation sources, including a random trigger. There are 3 modulation sources on the Virus A and B, which can be set to control 6 destinations. The Virus C and TI both allow for 6 modulation sources controlling a possible 18 modulation destinations. This does not include the 3 LFOs which can be set to modulate oscillators 1 and 2, pulse width, resonance and cutoff of both filters, stereo pan and any parameter you set as a source in the modulation matrix. Simultaneously if desired.

Maybe some clues on what makes the sound so "unique"?

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:06 pm

The virus gets a lot of stick but it definitely has that x-factor that marks all the classic synths. I had one of the first viruses in the UK and when I first brought it down to the studio where I working, the other engineers and musicians thought that it sounded like crap compared to the analogues we were used to working with. But within 6 months, they mostly all had one because they came to recognise its merits (the fact that it doesn't sound analogue ironically turned out to be a feature rather than a bug).

Rob Papen is inextricably associated with the virus because he provided the first set of presets, but imo it's the sounds that Manuel made that most people think of when they think of the virus (as this thread shows). So, trying to copy Manuel's presets is taking on the virus where it is being shown to its best advantage. The fact that these types of sounds have found their way on numerous records in a certain genre, also means that for many people, nothing short of a perfect copy will do.

As capable as z2 is, it is missing several key features of the virus (at least insofar as replicating the clip are concerned). Voice based unison and the virus's envelope shapes (particularly the decay stage) have already been mentioned, but the other missing feature is the virus's rather excellent portamento. z2's portamento neither works nor sounds anything like the virus's. From my brief tests (I don't think I can listen to that piece for more than a few minutes at a time), I can't reproduce the internal movement that is coming from portamento nor the distinctive chiffing from the decay of the two envelopes. I'll try again later tonight and post the result tomorrow if anyone's still here

p.s. fwiw, for me, Howard and Matt Picone were the pick of the preset providers, but their efforts notwithstanding, I sold my virus some time ago. It may have its strengths but it also has some serious limitations...

aquar · Post by **aquar** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:09 pm

D-Fusion wrote:Btw. here is Adventus playing the arp example
http://www.bigsoftwares.com/mp3/arpvengance.mp3

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone posted an Adventus clip. As good as the Adventus is for trance your example doesn't really hit the spot. Sorry.
I am beginning to resign myself to the fact that for melodic trance nothing comes close to the Virus.

cron · Post by **cron** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:35 pm

I haven't read any of this thread bar the first post but this seems like an odd concept.

It's all very well copying Virus sounds with Z2 to prove something about Z2's quality but the door swings both ways. Is anybody posting Z2 patches then trying to copy them with the Virus? By designating the Virus as the benchmark and Z2 as the competitor, Z2 will always produce the sound considered to be the pale imitation due to the limits of the framework in which it's being tested.

If we are to set Z2 as the benchmark and then emulate its sounds with a Virus, what then? We end up with a pale imitation of a Z2 sound, regardless of any qualities inherent to the sounds themselves.

What is actually being proven here? That it's impossible to flawlessly emulate a Virus with any other synth, or that it's impossible to flawlessly emulate any synth with any other?

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:46 pm

aquar wrote:
D-Fusion wrote:Btw. here is Adventus playing the arp example
http://www.bigsoftwares.com/mp3/arpvengance.mp3
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone posted an Adventus clip. As good as the Adventus is for trance your example doesn't really hit the spot. Sorry.
I am beginning to resign myself to the fact that for melodic trance nothing comes close to the Virus.

I know i just posted this example from the Adventus site so i did'nt make it

shogger · Post by **shogger** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:38 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Not having a Virus I looked at the Wiki page which is quite interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Virus
...
Maybe some clues on what makes the sound so "unique"?

I didn't read anything there that Zebra can't do!? I might be wrong though.

Funny were the several mentions of what the Virus can do in relationship to it's price range:

What separates the Virus from other analogue modelling subtractive synths in its price range is its twin multimode filter design and extensive modulation matrix, both of which are unique to the Virus.

So basically that says that they think that a higher priced synth has more features than the Virus? How times have changed.

Shogger

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:50 pm

Unfortunately I no longer have the Virus B (or much else anymore), but I can definitely corroborate the "darkness" of it. The high frequencies always seemed attenuated somehow, even when the filter was wide open. The only truly raw example I ever recorded off of it without any effects is the filter test I had linked to earlier. I believe this begins with the filter completely open:

Virus B

...and just for kicks, notice how wildly different the Nord Lead 2's filter behaves and it's capability for high frequency sharpness (I don't even think I opened it all the way in this clip), even on bass sounds. No wonder it's so popular in PsyTrance and Techno:

Nord Lead 2

The "Zebra2 plays Virus" challenge