The "Zebra2 plays Virus" challenge

[Summa]

@DevonB

Errrr, juding a synths quality by the presets isn't such a good idea, what about programming a simple standard sound with your Virus, for instance a sending a saw thru a filter with a little resonance, no FX, no distortion, no EQ, no Mod-Matrix. How fast can you create this oldschool electro sound in a descend usable quality, using an simple init patch as start, something almost every noob was able to do with most of the 80s subtractive Synths.
I find this to be a good test for a synth among the creation of a few other basic patches, it shows if the synths designer/programmer got the parameter scaling right and if the filter sounds good...

[Urs]

it holds cause the basic osc-filter-amplifier paradigm is as valid today as it was in 97 as it was in 67, you cannot add a lot to substractive synthesis that hasn't been done after 40 years, be it analog, virtual analog or pure software

It's not the architecture of the Virus and the Nord that make them interesting. Subtractive VA's are a dime a dozen, hardware and software. It's the implementation. Both the Virus and the Nord have a distinctive sound that most people still find very attractive and musical. How many other seven or even ten year old VA synths will people spend twenty pages trying to imitate here?

For one thing, Christoph Kemper is a mad genius. Whenever I get one of those first hand stories about him, I'm tempted to laugh until I realize that his ideas and ways are just freaking excellent. Did you know that he patented time stamped MIDI in 1993? That's way before Emagic, MotU and Steinberg came out with the corresponding hardware. He had to come up with lots of little tricks to squeeze the Virus on a chip, and that certainly contributes to the sound.

As to the magic that's there... I might have to check out a Virus C/TI for the Moog Filter.

Urs

[DevonB]

@DevonB

Errrr, juding a synths quality by the presets isn't such a good idea, what about programming a simple standard sound with your Virus, for instance a sending a saw thru a filter with a little resonance, no FX, no distortion, no EQ, no Mod-Matrix. How fast can you create this oldschool electro sound in a descend usable quality, using an simple init patch as start, something almost every noob was able to do with most of the 80s subtractive Synths.
I find this to be a good test for a synth among the creation of a few other basic patches, it shows if the synths designer/programmer got the parameter scaling right and if the filter sounds good...

I have 2 jobs, 2 kids and a wife. Time is precious, and good presets are even more precious if I ever want to get around to writing music. As long at the synth has good character, and the presets that come with it rock, I'm happy, and I seriously am. Can I do my own patches? Sure. I do edit and save out patches I don't like already to make 'em into something I do like.

Synths to me are the sum of their parts. If I judged synths by just the oscillator or the filter, I wouldn't be interested in 99% of the synhts out there. If the effects and programming of a weak filter and crappy PCM sounds or oscilaltors make up for this, chances are I'll still like the synth. Not every component has to be 'perfect', it just has to be inspirpational.

Devon

[3*s]

:/

[StrangeCat]

cleverr1 man what this guy wrote about producers was so on !!! Right on man that is exactly what is up!
Virus verses vsts....hmm no. It's the filters and the onboard FX. Vst synths most of them just sound sort of cold and edgy. But that doesn't mean you can't get them warm! with your own FX. I don't own a Virus I have tried one out it was pretty easy to use, but I haven't even heard to many VSTs that sound like the virus(not many with out a lot of tweaking.

(here's a music lesson for a lot of you)
I you have a big ass Neve Console and people come in and see that there going to be yea cool glad were working with this guy.

If you have 2 UAD cards with Neve Plug Bundle that just came out a few computers and a controller with couple LCD's what do you think there going to say?

It's all about show and name brands. Sure you can use some vst and work to get the virus sound but then if you say I used this synth in this production it's just not as cool as saying I used a virus^_-
hey carry on it's cool read till the flaming started LOL

I am sure there are those that can come close to the sound the Synth is standard still.
StrangeCat

[Summa]

I have 2 jobs, 2 kids and a wife. Time is precious, and good presets are even more precious if I ever want to get around to writing music.

I haven't asked for a killer sound, leave that to the pros. Usualy a few simple presets everyone can do should be possible instantaneously...

As long at the synth has good character, and the presets that come with it rock, I'm happy, and I seriously am. Can I do my own patches? Sure. I do edit and save out patches I don't like already to make 'em into something I do like.

That's not the same as trying to make simple sounds from scratch, since modifying presets will not reveal the flaws of the synth...

Synths to me are the sum of their parts. If I judged synths by just the oscillator or the filter

The Virus is a subtractive Synth and at least the classic versions (A, B, C) have pretty limited posibilities compared to (for instance) most of my other toys. So by what else should one judge a mainly subtactive synth than by the sound of the filter and the sound of its oscillators?

I wouldn't be interested in 99% of the synhts out there.

You shouldn't be, since their are only a few good subtractive synths out there...
But it's good to know that some ppl. sponsor the synth industry Still that doesn't make those synths any better...

If the effects and programming of a weak filter and crappy PCM sounds or oscilaltors make up for this, chances are I'll still like the synth.

If you haven't been able to tweak a simple sound from scratch with a synth you rather like the preset programmers not the synth.
I see all this question in those forums asking how to make pretty simple sounds and I'm pretty sure some of those quys simply bought a badly balanced synth.
Other than someone who is working on a song, has certain ideas how this song should sound like and what sounds he need, when programming a factory set the soundprogrammer don't have to make certain sounds a synth isn't capable to, he simply tries to shows the impressive sides of the synth only...

So this thing surely is a selfrunner, since its presets and sound with all the flaws became standard, but it's (like some other famous VAs) imho far away from a good and tweakable "beginners" synth...

Not every component has to be 'perfect', it just has to be inspirpational.

I can understand that it works for you, but that wouldn't give a recommendation on the synth for everyone. Even so I understand that it probably works fine for quite a majority still doesn't change the facts and fortunately taste changes over time, still I don't think that it gets any better...

...Summa

[Tronam]

Summa, the Virus is easily capable of simple, solid sounds. The "sweet spot" has clearly been engineered to be quite wide by Access. One thing it does not tend to do well, though, is really crisp, bright, sharp sounds like the Nords. But, it can easily do bread'n'butter types of patches without difficulty, such as pads, basses and drum sounds. I don't have a Virus anymore, but it was not a difficult instrument to program.

[kuniklo]

For one thing, Christoph Kemper is a mad genius.

He certainly did his homework on the Virus.

As to the magic that's there... I might have to check out a Virus C/TI for the Moog Filter.

I think I'm in the minority here, but I never really liked the Virus "Moog" filter and rarely used it in patches. It's a very dark filter on top of already dark oscillators so it only works, IMO, for very specific sounds. I could never get a searing Minimoog lead sound out of it, for instance. The basic Virus filter is excellent though. Really that's what makes the Virus the Virus more than anything else.

The most disappointing thing in the Virus engine for me was FM. It's fine for adding a little edge and buzz to other patches but forget doing any of the typical FM sounds with it.

[Summa]

@Tronam

Well, having a Virus TI here I needed a week until I was able to create my standards in proper quality and it always needed just a bit more tweaking than usual. Their simply is no sweetspot, without the help of the FX section and unisono mode it always sounds washed out. You hardly get the sound done with one filter only, hardly get propper basses without the use of distortion, always missing a third envelope, the pitch modulation doesn't go far enough. So one have to use serveral cheap tricks for a few simple standard sounds that should work right away...
The imho only bright side of the synth is the TI part, with enhanced FM/PM and additional oscillator modells...

[pschelfh]

OK, now we're back on track.

Some dirty 'Virus-y' trance arps made with Zebra2 :

Trance Arp 1
Trance Arp 2
Trance Arp 3

First uses the Exciter filter, second the Middrive filter and the third uses the XMF-filter = lots of balls !

Peter.

[pdxindy]

I am sure there are those that can come close to the sound the Synth is standard still.
StrangeCat

Most of the musicians I know do not know what a Virus is, or even use synths at all.

If you want the Virus sound, get a Virus. Lots of people however, do not particularly like the Virus sound. This idea that the Virus is somehow superior to vst's simply because one happens to like its sound is odd. I happen to like the sound of Zebra better than the Virus. That does not make it superior, except perhaps for my personal use.

I'd love to see more sound samples and less generalized statements of superiority in an arena that is so subjective.

[Tronam]

@Tronam

Well, having a Virus TI here I needed a week until I was able to create my standards in proper quality and it always needed just a bit more tweaking than usual. Their simply is no sweetspot, without the help of the FX section and unisono mode it always sounds washed out. You hardly get the sound done with one filter only, hardly get propper basses without the use of distortion, always missing a third envelope, the pitch modulation doesn't go far enough. So one have to use serveral cheap tricks for a few simple standard sounds that should work right away...
The imho only bright side of the synth is the TI part, with enhanced FM/PM and additional oscillator modells...

Well, like anything else, it all boils down to personal taste in the end. Everyone's expectations will be different with something so subjective. Probably the best way to talk about sound is to provide numerous sound examples along the way.

[Tronam]

I am sure there are those that can come close to the sound the Synth is standard still.
StrangeCat

Most of the musicians I know do not know what a Virus is, or even use synths at all.

If you want the Virus sound, get a Virus. Lots of people however, do not particularly like the Virus sound. This idea that the Virus is somehow superior to vst's simply because one happens to like its sound is odd. I happen to like the sound of Zebra better than the Virus. That does not make it superior, except perhaps for my personal use.

I'd love to see more sound samples and less generalized statements of superiority in an arena that is so subjective.

That's hardly conclusive. I would say that most musicians, period, haven't the slightest clue what separates any synthesizer from another or even how they work at all. But, amongst that small minority of synth geeks in the world, I would be willing to bet that a great deal more know what the Access Virus or Nord Lead are over most of the VSTi's we talk about on KvR. Not everyone hangs out in Internet Forum Land like we do. I'd say we're a *very* tiny slice of the global music community.

[ericj23]

OK, now we're back on track.

Some dirty 'Virus-y' trance arps made with Zebra2 :

Trance Arp 1
Trance Arp 2
Trance Arp 3

First uses the Exciter filter, second the Middrive filter and the third uses the XMF-filter = lots of balls !

Peter.

go and post up the midi for those - and i'll take a bash at them with my virus powercore

[pschelfh]

Ooops Sorry my mistake
Here is the midifile: http://www.box.net/shared/v7m6dy44k9

I did'nt see that i had saved it as a Riff midi.

The trance arp midi was posted by D-Fusion.

Peter.