The "Zebra2 plays Virus" challenge

[aMUSEd]

I had a chance to have a play of a Virus and a Voyager (and also the new Motif and M3 and a Radias) today in Soundcontrol. Why on earth do they set them up with crappy (BX5) speakers though? Anyway the Virus (TI keyboard version) was really quite nice - very tweakable and responsive and a good set of patches - whoever said they have good designers is right. I tried the Moog filter too - very resonant and as I had a Voyager next to it I got to compare them. The Virus filter is very smooth but tends to lose control when pushed and get a bit harsh (like a lot of modelled resonant filters do - Minimonsta is the same) whereas with the Voyager it was more musical (more like the Minimax filter - well the other way round I suppose). However I have to say there were a few things I really didn't like about the Voyager and I would not buy one if what I saw was any indication. The switches were very cheap looking plasticy things and the whole thing seemed to lack something in terms of build quality. But the worst thing was the XY touchpad controller - whoever designed that? It has a horrible rubbery coating that catches your finger as you use it and makes it really hard (and uncomfortable) to play and get good control with (I'm used to using the one on my V-Synth which is much better).

The Motif Grand piano was ace btw (except a bit lacking at the bottom end - you expect the sound to get bigger and more resonant as you get lower on a real piano but on the Motif it stayed the same - but the top end keys were fab - very tinkly and with the extra bit of sparkle top piano keys should have). Didn't like the Radias much and the M3 was a bit disappointing too - too many patches that sounded like a whole song (Bontempi sort of thing) - I always hated that in synths like XPhrase. A few of the moving pads blew me away though.

[hifiboom]

I am sure there are those that can come close to the sound the Synth is standard still.
StrangeCat

Most of the musicians I know do not know what a Virus is, or even use synths at all.

If you want the Virus sound, get a Virus. Lots of people however, do not particularly like the Virus sound. This idea that the Virus is somehow superior to vst's simply because one happens to like its sound is odd. I happen to like the sound of Zebra better than the Virus. That does not make it superior, except perhaps for my personal use.

I'd love to see more sound samples and less generalized statements of superiority in an arena that is so subjective.

good points pdxindy.

The virus is by no means that "oversynth", people try to claim it to be.

for sure, if you wanna sound like 90% of modern trance crowd, than you have to go for a virus and end up in sounding like the rest.

Nearly all patches shown in the BestOfVirus demo_mp3 posted earlier makes me sick when I listen to it.
Seriously I hate that kind of sound.

Sounds like music for 12 year old kids: dadadad dadadada
the bass has no punch, the high frequencies sound muddy.
Nothing for my taste.

It seems to be a sound filler instrument.

you play two notes on one patch and your mix is filled up completly.

If anything is replacable by a software synthesizer, than its a digital sounding synth like the virus.

[DevonB]

I have 2 jobs, 2 kids and a wife. Time is precious, and good presets are even more precious if I ever want to get around to writing music.

I haven't asked for a killer sound, leave that to the pros. Usualy a few simple presets everyone can do should be possible instantaneously...

As long at the synth has good character, and the presets that come with it rock, I'm happy, and I seriously am. Can I do my own patches? Sure. I do edit and save out patches I don't like already to make 'em into something I do like.

That's not the same as trying to make simple sounds from scratch, since modifying presets will not reveal the flaws of the synth...

I'm not sure what you're driving at? Make a simple sound to find its flaws? The one thing I've learned at KVR is one man's trash is another man's treasure. Some of the best 'sounding' oscillators and filters are in synths that don't excite me at all (FabFilter, Dot Com modulars, etc.)

Synths to me are the sum of their parts. If I judged synths by just the oscillator or the filter

The Virus is a subtractive Synth and at least the classic versions (A, B, C) have pretty limited posibilities compared to (for instance) most of my other toys. So by what else should one judge a mainly subtactive synth than by the sound of the filter and the sound of its oscillators?

I said just the oscillator OR the filter. Notice I said 'sum of its parts'. Without trying to be condescending, you and I know how many components make up a substractive synth (envelopes and flexilibty of the envelopes; modulation and how many source/destination possiblities there are; routing ability between oscillators, filters, envelopes and effects; the built in effects themselves; the flexibility of the filter and how many filter types; and the oscillator itself with how many types and if you can load your own, shape its harmonics, etc etc etc.) Judging by JUST one component is not something I do. I know some people like yourself, it is everything. That's great. If I did that, I'd have fewer synths and even less music written. Again, it's about inspiration, and having 'the best' filter or oscillator is not always the most important thing in the world to me.

I wouldn't be interested in 99% of the synhts out there.

You shouldn't be, since their are only a few good subtractive synths out there...
But it's good to know that some ppl. sponsor the synth industry Still that doesn't make those synths any better...

Any better to you? No. To me, it's a different story.

Not every component has to be 'perfect', it just has to be inspirpational.

I can understand that it works for you, but that wouldn't give a recommendation on the synth for everyone. Even so I understand that it probably works fine for quite a majority still doesn't change the facts and fortunately taste changes over time, still I don't think that it gets any better...

...Summa

Considering that most people never even modify the presets at all, I'd say the inspiration plays a much better factor than the "overall raw quality of a filter or an oscillator", or how easy it is to program if most people aren't interested in programming the synth at all. Obviously the feature set and overall quality of all components are a big deal to you. For *ME* personally when *WRITING* music, it's not at the top of my list.

...and I'm still kinda lost of the point of your post to me? Urs wondered how many people got a Virus and didn't like it. I got it and like it.

Devon

[DevonB]

Didn't like the Radias much and the M3 was a bit disappointing too - too many patches that sounded like a whole song (Bontempi sort of thing) - I always hated that in synths like XPhrase. A few of the moving pads blew me away though.

You're missing the main point of the KARMA software in the M3, which is how controllable and editable it is. KARMA is extremely powerful and nothing else is quite like it for manipulating MIDI data.

Read this page

http://www.karma-lab.com/kt/karma-triton.html

Listen to the examples as well. Let me know what you think?

Devon

[ericj23]

my attempts at replicating the trance arps from z2 on the last page are being seriously hampered by bass

I just cannot get a thick sound from the virus without getting lots of bass - which kind of swamps the high energy so obvious in those examples - I should be clear I dont think this is bad thing - i guess it could be said to be the virus signature sound

[shogger]

OK, now we're back on track.

Some dirty 'Virus-y' trance arps made with Zebra2 :

Trance Arp 1
Trance Arp 2
Trance Arp 3

First uses the Exciter filter, second the Middrive filter and the third uses the XMF-filter = lots of balls !

Peter.

Lots of balls is a good description. The idea of bringing various filters together is a good one I think. I would eq it a lot but your sounds have lotsa character(-istics) which I like. Cool.

Shogger

[JonasNorberg]

Check out: http://www.audjoo.com/Helix/mp3/trance-arp.mp3

[edit: two cubase "dynamics" in serial is applied to the sound]

I hope Helix will be the go-to vst for "super-saw" when it's easier to use and there are some better patches to tweak.

Well i think it does a pretty good job but i'm also hearing the phaser/chorus and delay applied to it in my mind.

You really should try beef it up with effects and see where it ends.

Hmm perhaps those demos should be made like DRY first and then WET or the other way round.

/Michael

I have a natural defense mechanism against drowning stuff in effects... the clip above already have both delay and reverb (built in to Helix) applied, I could not add more without feeling dirty...

[Boulotaur2024]

I really don't know what's the fuss about that old boring tarnce arp. I grabbed the midi file, put one instance of Xhip and a few effects in chain, and voila you've got 10 times better than the original clip....

[aquar]

I really don't know what's the fuss about that old boring tarnce arp. I grabbed the midi file, put one instance of Xhip and a few effects in chain, and voila you've got 10 times better than the original clip....

Excellent news, I trust you will be posting the result right here to back up your claim

[shogger]

[aMUSEd]

Didn't like the Radias much and the M3 was a bit disappointing too - too many patches that sounded like a whole song (Bontempi sort of thing) - I always hated that in synths like XPhrase. A few of the moving pads blew me away though.

You're missing the main point of the KARMA software in the M3, which is how controllable and editable it is. KARMA is extremely powerful and nothing else is quite like it for manipulating MIDI data.

Read this page

http://www.karma-lab.com/kt/karma-triton.html

Listen to the examples as well. Let me know what you think?

Devon

Oh I realise what Karma does and that I can edit them - I just thought they sounded a bit cheesy.

[pitchdrifter]

I've been exploring a new toy of mine a little and just found this thread, so here goes

Markus

[fgimian]

my attempts at replicating the trance arps from z2 on the last page are being seriously hampered by bass

I just cannot get a thick sound from the virus without getting lots of bass - which kind of swamps the high energy so obvious in those examples - I should be clear I dont think this is bad thing - i guess it could be said to be the virus signature sound

Would love to have a listen Eric, would you mind posting some samples of what you came up with please ?

Cheers
Fots

[JerGoertz]

And guess which synth this one is?
http://www.mindtrick.com/music/PhatMath.mp3
(yes, it's all a synth)

I'd say neither Virus nor Zebra...

JP8000?

You are correct in that it's neither Virus nor Zebra, but this too, is actually all using Reason's Subtractors with Reason's internal effects. Although, on this one I wasn't really even trying to sound like a Virus. This one was done just to show off what you can do with a Subtractor, whereas the other one was trying to emulate a Virus like patch.

Wow, that's really nice. I'm amazed that you could get such a phat, "big" sound using Subtractors.

Did you use multiple Subtractors per instrument (using Combinators or whatnot)?

[DevonB]

I really don't know what's the fuss about that old boring tarnce arp. I grabbed the midi file, put one instance of Xhip and a few effects in chain, and voila you've got 10 times better than the original clip....

...and the 10 times better clip you recorded can be heard where?

Devon