Played out with Logic Pro 7 + Fireface 800 and had 3 keyboards connected to Macbook Pro. Within a LP7 file, I loaded (assigned to a track) all the sounds that I needed for the day and assigned a midi channel. Then using a "cheat sheet", I would click, record enable, on the applicable tracks and play the various sounds on the 3 keys. In addition I had to switch each keyboard to the appropriate midi channel to play the sound.
I know there is a better and easier way to access multiple patches in each song. I have fluqe On Stage and it works nicely. But, it requires set up of a different enviroment, within LP7, for each song. For example, keysplits, patches, etc. have to be assigned within LP7 for each song. The is tedious and requires a higher level of knowledge of Logic's environment that I have.
It appears Receptor might be a solution. I own NI Komplete 4, Ivory Piano, USB Plug Sound Pro, Spectrasonics RMX, GPO, Sonic Synth 2 and all of the Logic Pro sounds. Can I assign various patches to each keyboard for each song, and, with the push of a button, change to a new set of assigned patches? If so, I presume I cannot use my Logic sounds and the USB Plug Sound Pro since they are not VST? Further I would like to bring only 2 keyboards (Yamaha S90ES and Novation Remote 61 SL). Can I split each keyboard and assign patches to enable me to play effectively 4-6 patches per song? After reading the manual, it looks like I can. Looking for realworld input and advice. Thanks.
Kirk
Receptor vs Logic Pro + Fluge On Stage
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Kirk,
I'm not quite sure what fluge is, but I'm pretty familiar with Logic.
Yes, I think Receptor might be what you are looking for. Receptor's multis are quite flexible, and allow you to assign plugs to various Midi channels, keyranges, and velocity levels to do splits and layers (as it seems you are doing). As well, you can create 'scene changes' which are light-weight multis, typically for changing patches on various plugs, while keeping the plugs assigned to the same Receptor/MIDI channels. With this, you can program buttons on your S90 or Remote 61 to change patches mid-song.
Regarding the plugs that you have that are supported on Receptor:
Komplete 4 is now available pre-installed from Muse.
There are installers for Ivory, Spectrasonics RMX, Sonic Synth 2, GPO. I don't know the status of PlugSound Pro (but USB's previous versions such as PlugSound Box, Charlie, Ultra Focus all are user installable). I don't believe the Logic instruments work outside of the Logic program.
For my setup, I switch B4/Charlie on one controller, and have a split of Analog Strings and MiniMonsta (or other analog modelling plugs) on another controller. I use an S90 as wellwhere I am using internal sounds to cover Acoustic and Electric Pianos, but I am considering driving this from Receptor too.
Hope this helps, Regards,
Kevin L
I'm not quite sure what fluge is, but I'm pretty familiar with Logic.
Yes, I think Receptor might be what you are looking for. Receptor's multis are quite flexible, and allow you to assign plugs to various Midi channels, keyranges, and velocity levels to do splits and layers (as it seems you are doing). As well, you can create 'scene changes' which are light-weight multis, typically for changing patches on various plugs, while keeping the plugs assigned to the same Receptor/MIDI channels. With this, you can program buttons on your S90 or Remote 61 to change patches mid-song.
Regarding the plugs that you have that are supported on Receptor:
Komplete 4 is now available pre-installed from Muse.
There are installers for Ivory, Spectrasonics RMX, Sonic Synth 2, GPO. I don't know the status of PlugSound Pro (but USB's previous versions such as PlugSound Box, Charlie, Ultra Focus all are user installable). I don't believe the Logic instruments work outside of the Logic program.
For my setup, I switch B4/Charlie on one controller, and have a split of Analog Strings and MiniMonsta (or other analog modelling plugs) on another controller. I use an S90 as wellwhere I am using internal sounds to cover Acoustic and Electric Pianos, but I am considering driving this from Receptor too.
Hope this helps, Regards,
Kevin L
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 41 posts since 7 Aug, 2004
Thanks Kevin. Yes this info is helpful. I need to contact Muse and understand this scene change feature. How easy is it to access the internal sounds of the S90?
Perhaps scence change will work for the following need:
When a song ends, I need to be able to quickly load the palet of patches for all keys, all set to the correct midi channel, etc. and start playing. Also, I am hopeful that I can pre- program the song patch changes to coincide with our set list by pushing a button on the S90 or Remote 61 SL.
One of the few challenges I see is finding patches to replace my Logic instruments. Since they are mainly strings and effects, might need to buy more VST's.
Thanks,
Kirk
Perhaps scence change will work for the following need:
When a song ends, I need to be able to quickly load the palet of patches for all keys, all set to the correct midi channel, etc. and start playing. Also, I am hopeful that I can pre- program the song patch changes to coincide with our set list by pushing a button on the S90 or Remote 61 SL.
One of the few challenges I see is finding patches to replace my Logic instruments. Since they are mainly strings and effects, might need to buy more VST's.
Thanks,
Kirk
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Kirk,
The User Guides should give you a good understanding of Scene changes. Also, there have been discussions about it in this forum (you'll probably have to do a content search).
As I said, when you keep the plugin mappings relatively constant, and just have patch changes, scene changes work pretty rapidly. If you need to replace sample-sets in a sample playback module (a la Ivory, Kontakt, etc), this will add time (but still will probably be faster than a laptop). Some sample playback synths (UltraFocus, PlugSound, sonic synth) load pretty quickly.
I notice that the Receptor is trying to do some smart things like preserving audio 'trails' when switching programs in scene changes.
As far as controlling the S90, Receptor doesn't really do this. It can react to controller changes on the S90, for any control that puts out MIDI data. I don't typically program my multis for S90 controllers, but do so for an Emu X-Station and an MAudio controller, and this works pretty well.
One thing to keep in mind if you are going the multi-keyboard route: Receptor only has 1 midi input. You will either need to use a Midi merger ahead of Receptor, or a combination of Midi and USB controllers. I use the MAudio board on USB (power and MIDI), and the XStation on the Midi input port. This works well.
Regarding Logic instruments: There are tons of other great VSTis to choose from that run on Receptor. Sculpture may be the only esoteric one that would be hard to replace.
For analog modeling plugs, I like the Arturia and GMedia plugs, and Sonic Projects OP-X. For String-Machine style synths, I use Sonic Projects 'Stringer' (I used to use USB UltraFocus, but the aliasing was too much). For 'killer' B3 stabs, USB Charlie is wonderful - however, if you need realistic Leslie speed-up or real-time drawbar changes, NI B4 II is the way to go. Ivory is pure bliss for Piano on Receptor. For real strings/orchestral - I hear GPO is quite good. My experiences are with the EWQL sample sets, and those are more than adequate. For Brass (think R&B, Funk, etc), I am using AMG's Kick-Ass Brass. As always, YMMV.
Best,
Kevin L
The User Guides should give you a good understanding of Scene changes. Also, there have been discussions about it in this forum (you'll probably have to do a content search).
As I said, when you keep the plugin mappings relatively constant, and just have patch changes, scene changes work pretty rapidly. If you need to replace sample-sets in a sample playback module (a la Ivory, Kontakt, etc), this will add time (but still will probably be faster than a laptop). Some sample playback synths (UltraFocus, PlugSound, sonic synth) load pretty quickly.
I notice that the Receptor is trying to do some smart things like preserving audio 'trails' when switching programs in scene changes.
As far as controlling the S90, Receptor doesn't really do this. It can react to controller changes on the S90, for any control that puts out MIDI data. I don't typically program my multis for S90 controllers, but do so for an Emu X-Station and an MAudio controller, and this works pretty well.
One thing to keep in mind if you are going the multi-keyboard route: Receptor only has 1 midi input. You will either need to use a Midi merger ahead of Receptor, or a combination of Midi and USB controllers. I use the MAudio board on USB (power and MIDI), and the XStation on the Midi input port. This works well.
Regarding Logic instruments: There are tons of other great VSTis to choose from that run on Receptor. Sculpture may be the only esoteric one that would be hard to replace.
For analog modeling plugs, I like the Arturia and GMedia plugs, and Sonic Projects OP-X. For String-Machine style synths, I use Sonic Projects 'Stringer' (I used to use USB UltraFocus, but the aliasing was too much). For 'killer' B3 stabs, USB Charlie is wonderful - however, if you need realistic Leslie speed-up or real-time drawbar changes, NI B4 II is the way to go. Ivory is pure bliss for Piano on Receptor. For real strings/orchestral - I hear GPO is quite good. My experiences are with the EWQL sample sets, and those are more than adequate. For Brass (think R&B, Funk, etc), I am using AMG's Kick-Ass Brass. As always, YMMV.
Best,
Kevin L
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Again,
I meant to mention this before. I also dabbled on a few gigs with a Behringer BCF2000 fader/controller merged into the Midi input. I programmed this to change multis, mute midi channels, and as live volume faders for each Receptor channel. This worked OK, but it was making my live rig pretty complex, so I only did this a few times.
Regards,
Kevin L
I meant to mention this before. I also dabbled on a few gigs with a Behringer BCF2000 fader/controller merged into the Midi input. I programmed this to change multis, mute midi channels, and as live volume faders for each Receptor channel. This worked OK, but it was making my live rig pretty complex, so I only did this a few times.
Regards,
Kevin L
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 41 posts since 7 Aug, 2004
Thanks again for the detailed response. It sounds like we have similar live gig equipment and sound objectives. I have 4 keyboards, S90ES, Novation Remote 61 SL, Roland A37 and Novation Remote 25, all of which are midi and USB. Also I have a Motu Micro Express midi interface. So I should be ok from an input standpoint.
I will do a content search for information on scene changes and read the manual to get a better understanding of how I could use them. I typically need about 16 different patches throughout a gig. It becomes very confusing to remember which keyboard/midi channel is playing which sound. Have to stay very focused.
Piano - Ivory
E Piano - NI E Piano
Soft Strings - Logic Exs 24
Ethereal Strings - Logic Exs 24
Symphonic Strings - Kontakt 2 VSL
Bright Strings - Logic Exs24
Cello - Kontakt 2 VSL
Horns Medium Swell - Chris Heins Horns
Brass Secton - Chris Hein Horns
Steel Guitar - Logic Scultpure (looks like I need a replacement)
Organ with Leslie control - NI B4
Triangle - Logic Exs 24 or Stylus RMX
Synth Swell - Ultra Focus
Additive Bells - Ultra Focus
Electric or Acoustic Guitar - Sonic Synth2 running through NI Guitar Rig
Synth Lead - NI Pro 53
I do need to simplify by reducing to 3 keyboards and playing multiple sounds on one keyboard via a split. I think this is where Receptor will be easier than Logic and a laptop.
I will have to test the load times for sample sets. I envision pushing a button and loading a sample set for each song. Much of the time I am playing 4-5 sounds, i.e., Put Your Records On has a horn swell and then a horn section without swell (Chris Hein Horns), Organ (NI B4), E Piano (NI Elec Piano) and Vox for strings (Logic Pro EXS24). Next song I might be playing Chasing Cars which has a new palette of 4-5 sounds, completely different from the previous song. If I can reduce the number of plugs I use, I could use screen sets in lieu of whole sample changes.
I have a Mackie Control and will need to compare this to the Behringer BCF2000. I prefer to use my feet. But since I have a Music Pad Pro, my left foot is pretty busy.
Thanks again,
Kirk
I will do a content search for information on scene changes and read the manual to get a better understanding of how I could use them. I typically need about 16 different patches throughout a gig. It becomes very confusing to remember which keyboard/midi channel is playing which sound. Have to stay very focused.
Piano - Ivory
E Piano - NI E Piano
Soft Strings - Logic Exs 24
Ethereal Strings - Logic Exs 24
Symphonic Strings - Kontakt 2 VSL
Bright Strings - Logic Exs24
Cello - Kontakt 2 VSL
Horns Medium Swell - Chris Heins Horns
Brass Secton - Chris Hein Horns
Steel Guitar - Logic Scultpure (looks like I need a replacement)
Organ with Leslie control - NI B4
Triangle - Logic Exs 24 or Stylus RMX
Synth Swell - Ultra Focus
Additive Bells - Ultra Focus
Electric or Acoustic Guitar - Sonic Synth2 running through NI Guitar Rig
Synth Lead - NI Pro 53
I do need to simplify by reducing to 3 keyboards and playing multiple sounds on one keyboard via a split. I think this is where Receptor will be easier than Logic and a laptop.
I will have to test the load times for sample sets. I envision pushing a button and loading a sample set for each song. Much of the time I am playing 4-5 sounds, i.e., Put Your Records On has a horn swell and then a horn section without swell (Chris Hein Horns), Organ (NI B4), E Piano (NI Elec Piano) and Vox for strings (Logic Pro EXS24). Next song I might be playing Chasing Cars which has a new palette of 4-5 sounds, completely different from the previous song. If I can reduce the number of plugs I use, I could use screen sets in lieu of whole sample changes.
I have a Mackie Control and will need to compare this to the Behringer BCF2000. I prefer to use my feet. But since I have a Music Pad Pro, my left foot is pretty busy.
Thanks again,
Kirk
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 6 Aug, 2007
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I too have Logic 7.2 and use OnStage by Fluqe (http://www.fluqe.com (http://www.fluqe.com)). And I too also need a way to get sounds & patches mapped onto a controller keyboard or two. Receptor is a great solution and I would LOVE to have one. But I can't afford it at the moment, and I've already got Logic, so my next option is to get better at Logic's environment and use OnStage.When Receptor makes scene changes, can you continue to play uninterrupted? How is this handled? With Logic + OnStage, I have to wait a second or two.
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Keyman,
This is hard to answer - it really depends on what you configure in your multis. If you are using compute based plugs (eg Arturia synth emulations, NI FM7, ....) and are keeping the same instruments on the same receptor channels (ie only changing patches within those plugs), You typically can play uninterupted. There seems to be some programming on the Receptor to preserve "trails", so this seems pretty seamless.
If your multi's have channels that are switching vsti's, or if you are loading different sample sets into romplers there will be delays. I have found that I can keep playing on other channels (that don't change configuration), while other channels (that I am not playing on) are changing plug/sample sets.
In general, there are ways to optimize your multis such that switching is seemless.
Hope this helps, Regards,
Kevin L
This is hard to answer - it really depends on what you configure in your multis. If you are using compute based plugs (eg Arturia synth emulations, NI FM7, ....) and are keeping the same instruments on the same receptor channels (ie only changing patches within those plugs), You typically can play uninterupted. There seems to be some programming on the Receptor to preserve "trails", so this seems pretty seamless.
If your multi's have channels that are switching vsti's, or if you are loading different sample sets into romplers there will be delays. I have found that I can keep playing on other channels (that don't change configuration), while other channels (that I am not playing on) are changing plug/sample sets.
In general, there are ways to optimize your multis such that switching is seemless.
Hope this helps, Regards,
Kevin L