Zebra2 : THE go to synth?

[spuddle]

Hi all,

I have been interested in purchasing a big power-house synth for a new live band that I play synth and guitars in. I typically get asked to create sounds with descriptions like "really menancing humanistic growl" or "eerie ghost, clawing it's way over a metallic surface" and the like.

I was wonder if Zebra2 could be a good synth to design such sounds from scratch? I am mostly a preset tweaker but would like to get 'intimate' with at least one very powerful soft synth and be able to design most sounds I wish from scratch with it.

I have heard good things about Zebra2 and will be trying the demo (if there is one) out as soon as I get some time in the next week or so.

However I was wondering if anyone had some feedback from their experience as using Zebra2 from a sound design perspective and being able to craft any sound they desire.

Cheers!

[mkastrup]

Hi all,

I have been interested in purchasing a big power-house synth for a new live band that I play synth and guitars in. I typically get asked to create sounds with descriptions like "really menancing humanistic growl" or "eerie ghost, clawing it's way over a metallic surface" and the like.

I was wonder if Zebra2 could be a good synth to design such sounds from scratch? I am mostly a preset tweaker but would like to get 'intimate' with at least one very powerful soft synth and be able to design most sounds I wish from scratch with it.

I have heard good things about Zebra2 and will be trying the demo (if there is one) out as soon as I get some time in the next week or so.

However I was wondering if anyone had some feedback from their experience as using Zebra2 from a sound design perspective and being able to craft any sound they desire.

Cheers!

If we split that apart my first attempt would probably be the following:

Growl = Low freq Triangle waveform which is modulated by random LFO and with Shaper module added last
Ghost = A sine waveform having its pitch manipulated by MSEG, with slight LFO modulation and Shaper for grittyness.
Metalic = Perhaps send all that thru a Comb module (which is pretty good at metalic). FM could also be the answer for something metalic.

If your new to Zebra then this may seem a bit overwhelming at first but once you get the grips on how modules connect it should be fairly easy to try this setup.

The more you use Zebra the more doors will open to you as with all synths, but in this case its an insane amount of doors that will open.

/Michael

[bmrzycki]

Hey spuddle,

Z2 is the first synth I have ever purchased, hard or soft. For me it's been an excellent learning platform for synthesis.

The biggest drawbacks to Z2 from my perspective:
1. There's a lot to learn. The current documentation is not geared toward a novice. You are expected to understand how Keyfollow affects a filter or oscillator as well as many other nuances of sound design. It's good to read the forum here or ask questions if you get stuck.
2. The sweet spot on Z2 is a lot more narrow than other simple 1 or 2 osc subtractive synths. It's easy to take a preset that sparkles and lose the vibe of the preset with a few knob turns.
3. It's intimidating. The number of options available in Z2 is staggering. You can use so many different sources for audio, from oscillators to combs and noise. You can even get certain filters to sound with the right keyfollow and resonance settings.
4. Feeling like you have to "use it all". I've heard this one from more than one person. Since there are so many tools in the Z2 kit, making 1,2 Osc -> filter ->fx patches seems almost like a waste. At first when I played with Z2 I'd add in so many components and routings that all my patches sounded like (bad) alien landscapes from a reject Absynth bank. It took me a while to truly appreciate the "less is more" in Z2. Just the oscillators alone have so many options!

For the good stuff:
1. It sounds great. In the hands of a truly talented sound designer, Z2 can make sound really amazing sounds. From bright and warm to cold and digital, and everything in between. The XMF filter can really add some serious bite to any sound. Check out Michael Kastrup's Zebra Oldskool threads here to listen to his mp3 samples (http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177685).
2. the support is excellent. I know I said the documentation isn't great, but Urs makes up for this by providing some of the best support I've seen on any product. Urs is one heck of pleasant person and is very responsive to any query or bug report in this forum. The other users here are very helpful as well. Rarely does a question I post last more than a day without someone responding with something helpful.
3. All 2.x updates are free. This doesn't mean just bugfixes, but features too. In the last major update (2.1) Urs added the XMF filter.
4. Windows and OSX support w/o a nasty dongle or web authentication. This is one that's overlooked initially by a lot of people in my opinion. Urs himself has said you can use Z2 on both a Mac and a windows machine as long as only the registerd person is using both. Try doing that with your copy of Live.
5. Presets presets presets. There are a ton of free presets as well as a few commercial sets. I'm certain you'll find a good start for your growl or ghost patch ideas.
6. The price isn't absurd. For US $199 (or US $169 if you qualify for the dinosaur crossgrade) you get a whole lot of sound. The average vanilla subtractive synth runs you about $129 US and doesn't include 1/5th of the sound source options in it. There's a reason Computer Music magazine gave it a 10/10 and Jim Aikin of Keyboard Magazine http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?storycode=17161 highly praised it.
7. It's meant to be played. There are a lot of features in Z2 with live playing in mind. The [Performance] tab has 4 XY panels that can be set to whatever you'd like, as well as how the changes scale. This means with the sweep of one axis, you can open the cutoff for filter one, adjust the cutoff for filter 2 and boost the resonance on both filters. I wouldn't be suprised if you could make a pretty cool patch that started "eerily ghostlike" and ended on "humanistic growl". Every stage of the envelopes are sensitive to velocity settings too, meaning you can really shape a sound just by how hard you hit the keys.

There is a demo available at http://zebrasynth.com/index.php?item=downloads in both Windows and Mac formats. This version is identical to a registered one, except that z2 starts to decide what notes to play after 15 minutes of play time. You can close it and re-open it to get the demo mode back. This never expires either, you can try as many presets as you want and every feature is available to you for 15 minute increments. I highly encourage trying out the demo with the free preset banks. It costs you nothing and if you can record a song in <15 mins, you don't even need to register.

I've put together a list of presets for Z2, it's located at http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180090.
(BTW, I don't work for Urs, I just really love his products. He's just made this hobby really fun for me.)

[pdxindy]

I do quite a bit of video work. So I have call to create audio for my video soundtracks and this has me making various sound effects along the lines of what you are asking for. This is one of the areas where Zebra really shines.

I have Tassman and String Studio along with Zebra. Then Kontakt as a sampler. I also have a good digital recorder and mic to collect ambient sounds.

Zebra has replaced Tassman as my main sound design synth cause it is so much easier to use. Zebra is modular in nature so it is a snap to do things I could not easily do in a standard 2/3 osc VA synth but at the same time one does not need to be a coder to work with it. I have made plenty of sounds like motors, and whirs, and various clanging metallic hits. Animal sounds, winds, running water and so on. There is a huge machine shop next door, but it is not always easy to isolate and record a certain sound and in that environment the mic sometimes hears a sound very different from my ear. Still get some good stuff there! I also live right by a train yard which makes for some fantastic recorded sounds. Natural recordings, sped up or slowed down, often end up sounding like other natural (ish) sounds. Very interesting stuff to play with!

These days, people often recognize the artificial sound as the real thing more than the real thing. (what does that say about our mediated society!)

Anyway, if you are willing to put in some learning time, you cannot go wrong with Zebra for sound design. One thing it could use would be an audio in osc. Even if it were not a live audio in, but just playback, that would be a useful addition for sound design. I still use Tassman for that, or sometimes Kontakt...

It is rare that I have not obtained a useful result in Zebra. Moreso than with any other synth I have used. One big reason I am such a Zebra fan!

cheers

[spuddle]

Wow, some great responses there, thank you for that guys.

Michael: I use your EVOL synth all the time! It's a great sounding piece of work. I'm sure I could apply those great synth tips to any half decent one's with success. Appreciated.

bmrzycki: I will check out the demo, the liberal use policy and also Win/OSX is a sure winner.

pdxindy: I've been really tempted to get into sound design as a career, have a lot more to learn about synthesis though but I have scored and done work for student animations. You mention audio in for an OSC, isn't that what Camel Audio's Cameleon synth offers?

[bluedad]

I play keys in a band. right now, Z2 and B4 on the laptop, plus my Motif
cover all I need.

[pdxindy]

pdxindy: I've been really tempted to get into sound design as a career, have a lot more to learn about synthesis though but I have scored and done work for student animations. You mention audio in for an OSC, isn't that what Camel Audio's Cameleon synth offers?

Does Cameleon have an audio in? or does it take some audio and resynthesize it? (I don't know it well at all... just played with the demo a bit)

Urs said something about Zebra getting audio in when VST3 comes along...

I'd also need to learn a helluva lot more to make a career in sound design. I like being out in the field with a camera or recorder more than I like being behind the computer!

[spuddle]

I play keys in a band. right now, Z2 and B4 on the laptop, plus my Motif
cover all I need.

Mac or PC?

[spuddle]

pdxindy: I've been really tempted to get into sound design as a career, have a lot more to learn about synthesis though but I have scored and done work for student animations. You mention audio in for an OSC, isn't that what Camel Audio's Cameleon synth offers?

Does Cameleon have an audio in? or does it take some audio and resynthesize it? (I don't know it well at all... just played with the demo a bit)

From the camelaudio.com site:

Code: Select all

Cameleon can import sampled sounds (WAV/AIFF) into any of the four voice slots, or you can choose from the extensive range of built-in voices. Cameleon has many unique features: it breaks sounds down into both a harmonic and noise component, for much higher quality and greater flexibility. No other additive synth is able to perform multi-sampling resynthesis. Cameleon's realistic and expressive sounds are unparalleled.

Cameleon also allows you to import image (BMP) files and turn them into sounds. This provides an extremely powerful way to design never-heard-before sounds. If you're ever stuck for inspiration, just try loading up any picture - perhaps a photo of your mum! 

Once you've imported a sound you can edit it in ways which would be impossible with a conventional sampler. You have independent control over each of the harmonics, so you can (for example) boost all the odd harmonics - or even draw your own harmonic spectra!

[puffer]

As a fellow synth learner who is trying to move away from preset dependency - must... make... own... sounds... - I can petty much assure you you'll have an easier go of it with Zebra than Chameleon. Chameleon is primarily an additive synth, and as such can be a little daunting when trying to dial in your own sounds. It's *really* easy to make it sound like crap. Even dissecting patches can be a bit of a head scratcher. The beautiful thing about Z2 is when you open up a patch you can quickly suss out how it is wired together. As bmrzycki said, it can have a narrow sweet spot, but it's a lot less narrow than Chameleon.

It may just be me, but I wire up Z2 all the time; I really don't reach for Chameleon unless I remind myself to.

[mkastrup]

@spuddle Great to hear EVOL is still in use out there

Regarding additive synthesis:

Most people dont pay attention to additive synthesis because its an odd way to create sounds but learning additive synthesis can give you quite an edge when creating sounds. Just about any raw waveform can be emulated enough to be recognized using only the first 16 harmonics. The easy way to go about it is to think of those harmonics as an extended version of a drawbar organ. Learn to manipulate with the first 16 harmonics and you have a friend for life.

Once you learned that you could use a spectrum analyzer to look at a waveform and see how the harmonics are placed and then you could (recreate) it knowing which harmonics to focus on or at least you have an idea of where to focus.

When you know your additive well enough you dont need instruments to check for hamonic placement but you just kinda paint the harmonics knowing how they interact.

Ok, one little drawback with Zebra is that the manipulation of harmonics is H A R D cause you have to operate within boundaries equivalent to operating a mosquito (HINT HINT Urs) but it is doable

Some of the things i've used additive for is drawing Organs, PPG waveforms, Bells, Cymbals, Slapbass, Guitars etc...

/Michael

[himalaya]

Oh shoot. I'm missing this whole Zebra boat. Better get on it then.

[pdxindy]

Oh shoot. I'm missing this whole Zebra boat. Better get on it then.

Yeah, you should... since you really like Tassman... While Tassman has more physical modeled potential, Zebra is surprisingly close and it is so much easier to use. I like the results I get in Zebra better than Tassman simply because it is so fast and easy to keep tweaking until I have something I like.

I have never gotten a clean sharp attack on a struck gong in Tassman that I like as well as this one from Zebra. The beat and resonance as it decays is also better than I was able to get in Tassman too.

http://www.draigathar.org/zebra/sharp-bell.mp3

and you can make something like this and morph it into something else if you want via modwheel or other controller. Personally I think Zebra hits the sweet spot when it comes to vast sound potential vs ease of use. It has both!

[mkastrup]

http://www.draigathar.org/zebra/sharp-bell.mp3

Nice clean bells Seems like you found some pretty good bell sweet spots

[himalaya]

Very good, real bell , pdxindy.