Hi folks,
I have a prob with the XY-perform settings that is either too cool for me right now or doesn't work right (as expected).
I want to assign a parameter to an X axis on a XY controller.
Let's say filter cuttoff.
I have a mellow pad sound and want to have a small range of cutoff change on the X axis.
so this might be a cutoff value range of 10 - 40.
So I do set the two triangles accordingly that the min and max values are right on my XY controller.
Unfortunately I get the following:
- X-Control all left is cutoff at 10 (correct)
- X-Control all right is cutoff at 40 (correct)
- X-Control at the middle CUTOFF IS AT 75!!! And this is simply way off.
So, what am I doing wrong? Am I doing something wrong? Urs told me (if I understood him right) that it should work as I expected it but it doesn't do so here. Same behaviour with the 2.2b5 beta and the 2.1 release version.
If it should work as I expect it then there's a bug.
Shogger
XY-control assign problem
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- u-he
- 30213 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Oh... so you want Cutoff to be 25 when X is in the middle?
Then Cutoff itself has to be set to 25
Then Cutoff itself has to be set to 25
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- KVRian
- 1100 posts since 4 Aug, 2004 from Copenhagen, Denmark
shogger, try this
http://www.michaelkastrup.com/synthdemos/shogger.h2p
I tried with offset at 25 but nothing got thru the filter so i raised the cut to 75
Its programmed on the Y axis
/Michael
http://www.michaelkastrup.com/synthdemos/shogger.h2p
I tried with offset at 25 but nothing got thru the filter so i raised the cut to 75
Its programmed on the Y axis
/Michael
www.xsynth.com - Sound Synthesis with Vintage flavour
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2665 posts since 11 Jun, 2007
Ah yes, thanx Urs, thanx Michael!
Slowly but surely. I think I got it finally.
The problems I see with the current implementation are:
- First I didn't get where the middle point is and how it is moved. Now I found out it's IN THE MIDDLE of the field where you assign the XY controls! Yes, cool I know but you don't see it instantly. You only really see it by moving the XY control and then you know where the small line starts and THAT is the middle of the control. Sorry, but that is simply AAAARRGGGHHHH!!!! I'm not stupid and know synth to quite some extent but that is simply strange (to use the nicest word I can think of right now). There should be some graphical thingy that ALWAYS shows the middle of the XY control adjust field just as in the control itself.
- Then I don't see a way to shift it ALL together up a notch. When I turn up the cutoff knob I mess up my balance between left-of-middle and right-of-middle. This in itself is fiddly.
To bring it all up I have to fiddle with three faders. The fact that the underlying field that represents my knob (cutoff) reacts the opposite way than the real knob helps the confusion, too.
The manual is not describing these things clear and concise which would be much needed. This thing took me several hours of trial and error and therefor frustration.
Suggestion: A visible middle point in the XY control assign field that when moved takes the two triangles with it and represents the knob that is assigned. Moving that point would move the underlying knob range field accordingly. If you want to shift the ratio between left-middle and middle-right something like shift + drag could change that balance.
Nuff said.
Shogger
Slowly but surely. I think I got it finally.
The problems I see with the current implementation are:
- First I didn't get where the middle point is and how it is moved. Now I found out it's IN THE MIDDLE of the field where you assign the XY controls! Yes, cool I know but you don't see it instantly. You only really see it by moving the XY control and then you know where the small line starts and THAT is the middle of the control. Sorry, but that is simply AAAARRGGGHHHH!!!! I'm not stupid and know synth to quite some extent but that is simply strange (to use the nicest word I can think of right now). There should be some graphical thingy that ALWAYS shows the middle of the XY control adjust field just as in the control itself.
- Then I don't see a way to shift it ALL together up a notch. When I turn up the cutoff knob I mess up my balance between left-of-middle and right-of-middle. This in itself is fiddly.
To bring it all up I have to fiddle with three faders. The fact that the underlying field that represents my knob (cutoff) reacts the opposite way than the real knob helps the confusion, too.
The manual is not describing these things clear and concise which would be much needed. This thing took me several hours of trial and error and therefor frustration.
Suggestion: A visible middle point in the XY control assign field that when moved takes the two triangles with it and represents the knob that is assigned. Moving that point would move the underlying knob range field accordingly. If you want to shift the ratio between left-middle and middle-right something like shift + drag could change that balance.
Nuff said.
Shogger
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- KVRian
- 1100 posts since 4 Aug, 2004 from Copenhagen, Denmark
Isnt the major issue here that XY have to control both plus and negative values so a middle for ENV modulation is dead center with value of 0 while a cut of freq center is 50% into filter.
I know its confusing and i gave up the first times i tried but knowing that XY have to control both positive and negative values i cant see how it could be any different without making it even more difficult to understand.
The way i see its primary function is when you setup at patch from scratch and assign 8 individual things to the XY control. From there you move on to actually create the pacth using XY and save various versions.
In your case you have a patch done already but want to control it by subtle movement using XY and thats where the logic kinda fails because you have to program the XY setting using odd numbers, while infact you could have assigned the things in the start by using the default value on XY controls.
Anyway, i'm cool with the XY assigning by now so its no problem here
/Michael
I know its confusing and i gave up the first times i tried but knowing that XY have to control both positive and negative values i cant see how it could be any different without making it even more difficult to understand.
The way i see its primary function is when you setup at patch from scratch and assign 8 individual things to the XY control. From there you move on to actually create the pacth using XY and save various versions.
In your case you have a patch done already but want to control it by subtle movement using XY and thats where the logic kinda fails because you have to program the XY setting using odd numbers, while infact you could have assigned the things in the start by using the default value on XY controls.
Anyway, i'm cool with the XY assigning by now so its no problem here
/Michael
www.xsynth.com - Sound Synthesis with Vintage flavour
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2665 posts since 11 Jun, 2007
Hm, I don't think that it's that much the problem. You could change the graphic bit there to show clearly where the middle of the bipolar knob is. As I already started to customize the GUI I will do that for me.mkastrup wrote:Isnt the major issue here that XY have to control both plus and negative values so a middle for ENV modulation is dead center with value of 0 while a cut of freq center is 50% into filter.
mkastrup wrote:I know its confusing and i gave up the first times i tried but knowing that XY have to control both positive and negative values i cant see how it could be any different without making it even more difficult to understand.
Do you think my ideas for this are harder to understand than how it is right now? With the knob field that has to be moved downwards to turn the knob up? With the three seperate knobs that should be able to be moved together?
mkastrup wrote:The way i see its primary function is when you setup at patch from scratch and assign 8 individual things to the XY control. From there you move on to actually create the pacth using XY and save various versions.
Yes, that workflow makes sense. But then it's a macro tool for patch creation and not a performance tool. If you want to have working value ranges on the XY controls for performing you have the hassle with the given restrictions anyway. I made 250+ patches and later I thought it might be a good idea to assign some of these XY controls. And besides of that I don't like it if a tool can't be used in a way I would like to but works only best if I change my workflow.
mkastrup wrote:In your case you have a patch done already but want to control it by subtle movement using XY and thats where the logic kinda fails because you have to program the XY setting using odd numbers, while infact you could have assigned the things in the start by using the default value on XY controls.
Again, I don't think it's cooler to work that way. Even when assigning everything from the start the value ranges have to make sense and they might get changed in the process of preset creation. And making an update might force you to adjust not only one but 3 sliders. Or it could happen that your left-middle-right balance gets whacked.
mkastrup wrote:Anyway, i'm cool with the XY assigning by now so its no problem here
/Michael
Yeah, sure. Your milage varies.
Shogger
P.S. To make this one point crystal clear: I really like Zebra for it's very good sounds. It's deep and it has a vast palette of great sounds which is what makes it for me definitely. E.g. did you hear me say XMF? YES!!!!!
