All about compressors (links broken: sorry!)

[Tp3]

but then again, sound is always purely subjective so we're back at square one.

Word

BTW, many "can't achieve that professional sound" because they are...well...ummm... not professionals

It's the DRIVERm, my friend. first and foremost. the car is only the MEANS.

I would have probably get the same sound out of a Distressor, were I was to mix with it against, say, a sonalksis or FabFilter. and I'm talking ONLY in a MIX context (meaning - NOT ONE SINGLE AUDIO FILE against another SINGLE AUDIO FILE)

It's the DRIVER. always.

[eduardo_b]

Now, I can make music... I can make it sound GOOD (or even - VERY GOOD).
You can make music... you can make it sound BETTER.
Will your listeners notice the difference ? I know that in my case (dance music and to be exact : breakbeat) - I bet my computer that the resounding answer will be "NO"

That really is the conundrum for those who debate how much money to spend on plugs, particularly compressors, which require knowledge and experience to obtain the best musical results. If listeners can't know the difference, are there still good reasons to spend lots more money for software? I don't have an answer per se, but I think in practical terms one really isn't limited (no pun intended ) by not owning the best in every category of plug-in. I appreciate, for example, that different compressors can produce subtle but different results, but I couldn't know which one was used. If I like the music, I guess I don't care either.

[semtek]

Now, I can make music... I can make it sound GOOD (or even - VERY GOOD).
You can make music... you can make it sound BETTER.
Will your listeners notice the difference ? I know that in my case (dance music and to be exact : breakbeat) - I bet my computer that the resounding answer will be "NO"

That really is the conundrum for those who debate how much money to spend on plugs, particularly compressors, which require knowledge and experience to obtain the best musical results. If listeners can't know the difference, are there still good reasons to spend lots more money for software? I don't have an answer per se, but I think in practical terms one really isn't limited (no pun intended ) by not owning the best in every category of plug-in. I appreciate, for example, that different compressors can produce subtle but different results, but I couldn't know which one was used. If I like the music, I guess I don't care either.

I honestly think that there are good reasons for spending money on compressors. I see an analogy here with the debunked Linguistics theory that because Eskimos have more words for snow than we do, they also have a fundamentally different perception of it. The idea was that they could perceive many more types of snow because they had developed many more terms to describe it. (This is a simplified version of a complex debate).

The current belief is that this is nonsense, because anyone is capable of differentiating between slush, hard snow, icey snow, etc... Although we may not have specific terms, we our still able to appreciate differences in texture and consistency by comparison. Even if the best we can do is to say that one type is "simply different" than another, that is enough to prove that 'snow novices' are capable of near-equal sensitivity.

My argument is that although a listener will almost certainly not attempt to identify which revision Urei a kick drum has gone through on a track, that does not mean the listener is oblivious to the difference it makes. I recall being in record shops where the assistants have described records as "really tough" or "punchy". All humans have incredibly, insanely sensitive perceptions of sound, and small differences in character do have an impact on the overall perception of a song.

To give an example, there's a Chicken Lips track called 'He Not In', a classic electro-houser. The original has a crisp punchy breakbeat, whilst the Stanton Warriors remix has a squashed disco feel to the beat. They are almost identical in every other respect, but have very different flavours and you can be sure that your average Joe will have a preference of one over another. The fact that he isn't able to say that one beat is on a short attack, short release feed forward compression whilst the other is on a medium attack long release feedback compression is irrelevant. It still plays a central role in the song. And, furthermore, different plug ins are strikingly better suited for different applications (like hardware).

I would always choose a Sonnox dynamics plug for the snappy sounds because the algorithm is biased towards maintaining hi frequency snappiness. You cannot get a similar effect out of the Sonalksis SV-315 compressor because its response to the programme material at similar settings is more gentle. It is much better suited for slow gain riding at high attack/release settings.

If you spend time with your tools and establish what their musical lexicon covers your music will benefit from the subtle differences they impart. Your listeners will never know what you did to those drums, but that won't stop them knodding their head in appreciation. After all, we live in an age where hi-fis are not band limited like they used to be, and do produce a reasonably accurate sound. In clubs the well-thought out use of compression is even more important as the bass and drum transients are so heavily amplified.

Conclusion? It does matter and it always will. Looking back, the records which survive the test of time and appeal to generations who didn't grow up with them are invariably the records that were well-produced. Think Michael Jackson (Quincy Jones), The Beatles (George Martin), Justin Timberlake (Neptunes), The Orb (Kris Weston), Lee (Scratch) Perry, Pink Floyd... the list goes on. There will always be artists like Justics (a pet hate, some may disagree), who make badly produced, over-squashed songs, but you can be sure they will be soon forgotten once the fashion for that sound fades.

[eduardo_b]

I honestly think that there are good reasons for spending money on compressors...My argument is that although a listener will almost certainly not attempt to identify which revision Urei a kick drum has gone through on a track, that does not mean the listener is oblivious to the difference it makes.

While I don't disagree with your points made, I do think the details are malleable. The differences can indeed be discerned by listeners, but the exactness of each difference is within a range of possibilities -- any of which might work as well as others.

Which is to say, any number of compressors could be used to create a variety of approaches to the music. Is price related? Perhaps in some cases it might matter, but in many it might not. One has to decide if the differences are truly worth the price.

[bmanic]

I honestly think that there are good reasons for spending money on compressors...My argument is that although a listener will almost certainly not attempt to identify which revision Urei a kick drum has gone through on a track, that does not mean the listener is oblivious to the difference it makes.

Which is to say, any number of compressors could be used to create a variety of approaches to the music. Is price related? Perhaps in some cases it might matter, but in many it might not. One has to decide if the differences are truly worth the price.

Well, price should NOT be taken as a deciding factor for quality. Price can hint towards a long development cycle and a lot of subjective listening tests and tweaking to get "the best performance" out of the compressor but it does in no way make it automatically better.

Part of the reason why I like compressors so much is that they indirectly affect the way we perceive the rhythm or "flow" of music. They are kind of "black boxes that do something that affects the feel of the overall track". They can also be brutal tools to do a specific job.

As an example of a very good compressor plugin, I always mention this. MjCompressor is simply fantastic and it is free.

Cheers!
bManic

[semtek]

I honestly think that there are good reasons for spending money on compressors...My argument is that although a listener will almost certainly not attempt to identify which revision Urei a kick drum has gone through on a track, that does not mean the listener is oblivious to the difference it makes.

While I don't disagree with your points made, I do think the details are malleable. The differences can indeed be discerned by listeners, but the exactness of each difference is within a range of possibilities -- any of which might work as well as others.

Which is to say, any number of compressors could be used to create a variety of approaches to the music. Is price related? Perhaps in some cases it might matter, but in many it might not. One has to decide if the differences are truly worth the price.

Yes, I take your point on this. Recently I have started to listen critically to the way different tracks are made and sometimes I feel that poor drum processing has made an average track out of a good idea. I make electronic club music, which is often musically very simple, so I like records where the grooves and loops have been really worked and shaped well. If it sounds choked or lacks punch I won't buy it, but that's not true for everyone by any means.

Sometimes it doesn't seem to matter so much. I personally think the Hot Chip material is always a bit dodgy on the production side, but the music's good enough for it not to matter.

Bmanic - I completely agree with what you're saying about the way a compressor can affect the rhythm of a track when used well. Mr Oizo - Flat Beat is my favourite example of this.

[eduardo_b]

...price should NOT be taken as a deciding factor for quality. Price can hint towards a long development cycle and a lot of subjective listening tests and tweaking to get "the best performance" out of the compressor but it does in no way make it automatically better...

Of course, we're talking about software, right? After all, it's hardly a fair comparison with hardware, which is typically fairly pricey compared to virtual versions.

Trained, experienced ears will probably picked out subtle (and not so subtle?) differences between hardware and software compressors, but most people most of the time would need to A/B to hear differences, may or may not actually hear them, and might not consider one significantly better than the other.

Then, given the economics of creating a home studio for personal involvement with music that doesn't likely extend to professional ambitions, hardware is simply not a possibility. An entire studio of first-rate virtual instruments, effects, host and so on can be had for the price of one piece of professional level hardware. It simply isn't an issue of whether hardware has intrinsically better qualities than software, because there's no economic possibility of acquiring the hardware anyway.

To me, getting that last few percentages of improvement isn't as important as getting the first 95 to 98 percent right. As I already noted in an earlier post, those who listen to the music and like it are not going to know anything about compression, let alone which ones are which. In the end, it's the music. A good thing too.

[eduardo_b]

Which is to say, any number of compressors could be used to create a variety of approaches to the music. Is price related? Perhaps in some cases it might matter, but in many it might not. One has to decide if the differences are truly worth the price.

Yes, I take your point on this. Recently I have started to listen critically to the way different tracks are made and sometimes I feel that poor drum processing has made an average track out of a good idea.

Listening critically seems to be the line in the sand between those who create music with serious involvement and those who love music and don't know or care about the technology. Compression that results in bass, drums and so on that come together to create music with emotional connections to listeners it really what it's about. The attitudes of mixing and mastering engineers about compression range from can't live without it to as little as possible please. But compression certainly does things that nothing else can when it comes to music.

[Klemperer]

Part of the reason why I like compressors so much is that they indirectly affect the way we perceive the rhythm or "flow" of music. They are kind of "black boxes that do something that affects the feel of the overall track". They can also be brutal tools to do a specific job.

As an example of a very good compressor plugin, I always mention this. MjCompressor is simply fantastic and it is free.

Cheers!
bManic

That's most interesting. And because I am surely not in the least a "professional" concerning compressors, and often trying this or that nearly randomly, this "black box" point is even more true here. I used to write down where in a chain I put a compressor, which one, and how I set ratio threshhold and so on. Takes more time than learning how professionals do it, but this way you really get a "black box" result in a way, just trying out things.

[triple p]

Has anyone made any Pro-C examples or blue-tube compressor examples?
I have them and would make some. Also has the newer Nebula3 compressors been used for any of these examples?Just been reading through this and it is a great thread. Thanks bmanic!

[triple p]

bmanic, you could do some awesome m/s examples with pro-c.

[bduffy]

He's got some good ones in his Pro-C presets...

[triple p]

where can i find those? i got his blue cat presets when i first got their dynamics and their good.

[bduffy]

They're built into Pro-C. Mr. Manic was part of the beta team. Any preset marked with "bM".

[triple p]

ohoho. I did not know that. Thanks for pointing that out. I use the "bm" presets quite a bit. Was that the compressor he posted examples of and said he wasn't sure if it would be released?