Insert Piz Here

maki · Post by **maki** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:18 am

I think that we already have something like this: phrazor, MidiPart, bidule...
But automatic buffer lenght quantization on bar and beat and CC controll on loop points would be something new and usefull for live use.

insertpizhere · Post by **insertpizhere** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:23 am

ok, the LFO had some bad bugs related to phase and beat triggering. it should work much better now.

Lagrange wrote:

that looks good to me. if i do it, it'll be simple like this. yes, please explain what each thing in the picture does... i think i understand most of it though.

-PIKU- · Post by **-PIKU-** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:29 am

why only 9 patterns... the era2 pattern selector allow to acces up to 127 patterns with no complications...

soma · Post by **soma** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:51 pm

simple midi lfo looks great. haven't tested though.

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:10 pm

maki wrote:I think that we already have something like this: phrazor, MidiPart, bidule...
But automatic buffer lenght quantization on bar and beat and CC controll on loop points would be something new and usefull for live use.

I'm looking for a plugin made specificially for this use, no bells and whistles.

Dont really understand buffer length quantization thing.. I was thinking that just entering a number of bars and or beats would determine the length of the MIDI loop. CC ctrl on loop points is beyond what is needed because you could just record to another section or iteration. Plus I'm thinking it would be too complex from a dev point of view.

-PIKU- wrote:why only 9 patterns... the era2 pattern selector allow to acces up to 127 patterns with no complications...

BTW it's actually 10 pats

.. I was thining for live use, fewer buttons are easier to work with no? To get 127 patterns there would have to be a sub buttons like:

ABCDEFGHIJKLM
then
0123456789

Plus M would have only one preset. Let me know if theres an easier way to set up the GUI so that its user friendly..

I'm thinking now that there may be no point for one shot recording and playback (Stop, rewind and loop on/off buttons). I say this is because stop can be done with the length of the recording entered, no point for rewind as is its a looper and loop cause well it would be already in loop mode. Please let me know if you think there should be a one shot mode.

Also what do you think the max length (beats/bars) should be 32 bars max? Piz is this feasible??

L

maki · Post by **maki** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:55 pm

Lagrange wrote:
maki wrote:I think that we already have something like this: phrazor, MidiPart, bidule...
But automatic buffer lenght quantization on bar and beat and CC controll on loop points would be something new and usefull for live use.
I'm looking for a plugin made specificially for this use, no bells and whistles.

Dont really understand buffer length quantization thing.. I was thinking that just entering a number of bars and or beats would determine the length of the MIDI loop. CC ctrl on loop points is beyond what is needed because you could just record to another section or iteration. Plus I'm thinking it would be too complex from a dev point of view.
L

It is easy to understand that live performance with a mouse determination of lenght of a loop is tedius end gives a bad ergonomic and bad musical contribution. Isn't it much better to hit sustainpedal for recordingstart and release sustain pedal for recording stop and expect that loop we just recorded fits on bar? Or maybie someone likes to stuggle with a mouse, making it totaly impossible for right hand to do something more musically.
Besides buffer quantization on bar or beat I could suggest option when a sustainpedal release event transfers the newrecorded midi loop automaticly to a pattern and/or assigns a pattern to a trigger key, and all that while actualy playing on instruments, not on a mouse.

If a man wants to make a new software for us, why not something usefull that does not exist instead of something usefull that already exists?

insertpizhere · Post by **insertpizhere** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:27 pm

it would definitely have midi control of recording. but what exactly would make it be an "auto-buffer-length-quantized looper" rather than a simple tempo-synced delay? if that could be explained in detail, i think it would help. maybe i should just try the MIDIzoid thing and see what's wrong with it.

insertpizhere · Post by **insertpizhere** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:38 pm

i guess the length of the recording would "snap" to the beat to make it fit a bar (or whatever selected quantization). but that wouldn't really be noticeable until you started doing other operations on the buffer, like when you record over it. if it just loops infinitely, how can you tell where the loop points are, and why do you care? this is what i want to know.

bobsled · Post by **bobsled** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:09 pm

Some feedback from me while coming up for air after spending the last few days exploring the depths of my vst folder with midiConverter.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. My heartfelt appreciation, dear dev, for the new found expressiveness in my playing. Channel Pressure to Mod, for example, means that synths like Firebird or Discovery (which have no Channel Pressure support but feature special internal Mod routings) are now brand new all over again. So much more emotion, more character, so much more...well...fun, I guess. Crazy how such a seemingly simple plugin like this has so quickly become essential to me, helping me realize more the full potential of my CME UF5. Finally, I'm able to quickly and easily do what I thought I'd be able to do when I first got the keyboard.

Most sincerely,

Steve

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:53 pm

A touch more info..

maki - wouldnt it make more sense just to be able to assign a CC to record then your sust pedal could be connected??

Piz I'm wondering if it would make sense to add sync to the Record button so when Record is triggered, it kicks in on the 1st beat of a bar

.. Oh and for those patterns a reset all button would be good

..

L

maki · Post by **maki** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:15 pm

[quote="Lagrange
maki - wouldnt it make more sense just to be able to assign a CC to record then your sust pedal could be connected??

L[/quote]
Yes, AND to stop recording when I release a sustain pedal...but what happends if I stop recording some miliseconds before or some miliseconds after a bar? A loop goes out of synchronization already on first repetition. Not to mention what happends if we want to use two or more midiloopers simultaneously.
That is why buffer length quantisation would be great.

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:03 pm

hmm seems to me like a field to enter the amount of bars and or beats would solve this issue no? As this value would determine exactly how long the looper records for? Also if it could record synced to tempo and start recording on the next 1st beat for the next bar would'nt that also help? Dunno

Anyhoo I'm sure the genius piz will figure it out

L

insertpizhere · Post by **insertpizhere** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:09 pm

if the recording length is quantized (to whole bars or a number of beats), it will always stay in sync. but that's not much different from a tempo-synced delay with a control that mutes/unmutes the input. the difference would come up when triggering the loop, if it's not just looping the whole thing continuously. when retriggered, it'll always start in the right place. it would work kind of like the LFO, but with recorded midi as the "waveform", if that makes sense.

maki · Post by **maki** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:11 pm

Lagrange wrote:hmm seems to me like a field to enter the amount of bars and or beats would solve this issue no? As this value would determine exactly how long the looper records for? Also if it could record synced to tempo and start recording on the next 1st beat for the next bar would'nt that also help? Dunno
Anyhoo I'm sure the genius piz will figure it out

L

Are we still forcing this programmer to make something that already exists, something we already have? to reinvent a wheele? I have to say NO, No, that is just what I have been talking about is NOT good with existing midi loopers: that we must determine lenght BEFORE we actualy play something. How can we know when inspiration strikes and how long it wil last? It should be some kind of a counter that counts bars and beats for us WHILE we record and when we stop recording(not by stinking mouse but with sustain pedal of course because our right hand is still on a more usefull place- a midi keyboard!) counter stops and buffer lenght gets quantizied on nearest bar or beat. At the same time recorded loop is assigned to a trigger or a key or whatever controll-message.

insertpizhere · Post by **insertpizhere** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:18 pm

soma wrote:simple midi lfo looks great. haven't tested though.

let me know if you have any suggestions.

and keep in mind that you can automate the parameters with other LFOs... in the last update, the phase is updated continuously, and the control goes from -180 to +180. modulating the phase, offset, and amplitude should be a lot of fun.

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piz midi plugins (windows/linux/mac)