we create, therefore we am.

[rachmiel]

saying I hold back a lot more than I let on around here.

i noticed that starting a few months back you pretty much stopped offering your opinion about kvr offerings. you often say something like: 'downloaded, will listen later' ... but rarely follow up on that. why?

[runagate]

saying I hold back a lot more than I let on around here.

i noticed that starting a few months back you pretty much stopped offering your opinion about kvr offerings. you often say something like: 'downloaded, will listen later' ... but rarely follow up on that. why?

Lack of sound reinforcement (only have headphones which I don't even carry to where I get wireless internet), no net at home, and time. Spending entirely too much time helping local musicians recently, running around trying to find a job again. Then again you must have noticed I lack a facility for putting words to my enjoyment of my favorite musicians' music. I think it has to do with being non-visual, we simply lack terms for what I'd want to convey. For instance, that's why I made Paul E. Slax for Poly My hommage. But, really, it's just lack of time.

[justin3am]

saying I hold back a lot more than I let on around here.

i noticed that starting a few months back you pretty much stopped offering your opinion about kvr offerings. you often say something like: 'downloaded, will listen later' ... but rarely follow up on that. why?

Cause I smell bad and he can smell me through his internet

It may not be as noticible cause I comment on as many songs as possible but I know I've become less critical of other peoples work as time goes on. I thought for a while that since my paycheck no longer depends on my mixing abilities, my ears have become dull. Then I started to realize that i have just grown more sensitive to the emotional content of peoples work. If I hear something that comes off as an honest creative expresion I find it impossible to criticize them other than providing the dryest technical information. As the ability to record has becom more accessible it has come to my attention that music (at our level) is becomeing more about an outlet for creativity than production values.

I guess that might still be a result of music becoming more of a hobby and less of a job.

[rachmiel]

saying I hold back a lot more than I let on around here.

i noticed that starting a few months back you pretty much stopped offering your opinion about kvr offerings. you often say something like: 'downloaded, will listen later' ... but rarely follow up on that. why?

Lack of sound reinforcement (only have headphones which I don't even carry to where I get wireless internet), no net at home, and time. Spending entirely too much time helping local musicians recently, running around trying to find a job again. Then again you must have noticed I lack a facility for putting words to my enjoyment of my favorite musicians' music. I think it has to do with being non-visual, we simply lack terms for what I'd want to convey. For instance, that's why I made Paul E. Slax for Poly :) My hommage. But, really, it's just lack of time.

i figured it was because you were growing weary of finding positive things to say for music that didn't particularly interest you. and you're far too kind to say anything hurtful.

[rachmiel]

As the ability to record has becom more accessible it has come to my attention that music (at our level) is becomeing more about an outlet for creativity than production values.

yes. many pro(ish) musicians resent (are threatened by) the ease with which non formally trained people can create decent sounding songs. 'hey i worked six hours a day for 15 years to get to where i am ... how dare you think to pass yourself off as a songwriter/engineer/producer after a year of diy efforts!' personally, i LOVE that music creation has gotten 'easier' ... less elitist and more possible for anyone who has the energy/desire/talent and a bit of time. i want to hear everyone's music, it all interests me, often fascinates me. with one stipulation: i want to hear the idiosyncratic expression of that unique person ... NOT (NOT!) an imitation or clone of another personality/style.

[runagate]

Sort of the opposite. I can't be bothered to explore musicians' work whose name I don't know at the moment (time) and am more than happy to criticize anything that moves unless the person has indicated being averse to criticism. I am all but name-calling in another thread as we speak, for instance.

[rachmiel]

Sort of the opposite. I can't be bothered to explore musicians' work whose name I don't know at the moment (time) and am more than happy to criticize anything that moves unless the person has indicated being averse to criticism. I am all but name-calling in another thread as we speak, for instance.

runagate has fangs?

[runagate]

Sort of the opposite. I can't be bothered to explore musicians' work whose name I don't know at the moment (time) and am more than happy to criticize anything that moves unless the person has indicated being averse to criticism. I am all but name-calling in another thread as we speak, for instance.

runagate has fangs?

Good god, yes; how long have you known me?

I guess that tells you something about my love of your music.
I am not an easy person to wrangle a compliment out of.
I almost can't face some RL friends when they make shite music, but like I say no one would ask if they didn't want my uncensored opinion.

My midget friend is worse. I've had to physically restrain her from storming the stage and "stop them for embarassing themselves" on at least 3 occasions. She was not joking, and was unaware of the humor of her attempting to do so. If one does not care enough about music to be passionate about it, why not leave it to those who are and get attention/potential mates/money some other way? f**king poseurs.

[rachmiel]

Sort of the opposite. I can't be bothered to explore musicians' work whose name I don't know at the moment (time) and am more than happy to criticize anything that moves unless the person has indicated being averse to criticism. I am all but name-calling in another thread as we speak, for instance.

runagate has fangs?

Good god, yes; how long have you known me? :hihi:

I guess that tells you something about my love of your music.
I am not an easy person to wrangle a compliment out of.
I almost can't face some RL friends when they make shite music, but like I say no one would ask if they didn't want my uncensored opinion.

My midget friend is worse. I've had to physically restrain her from storming the stage and "stop them for embarassing themselves" on at least 3 occasions. She was not joking, and was unaware of the humor of her attempting to do so. If one does not care enough about music to be passionate about it, why not leave it to those who are and get attention/potential mates/money some other way? f**king poseurs.

i just realized that runagate MIGHT be a figment of our (solium, justin, vurt, jazzyspoon, polyslax, you know the kvr insider outsiders) group imagination. a construct we've instantiated through the intersection of our unconventional musical tastes. here are the clues:

- he comes and goes mysteriously
- no one has ever met him (physically)
- he claims to be a giant
- yet claims to be on intimate terms with a midget
- his music is (quite often) catastrophically odd

perhaps we gave birth to runagate through our psychic connections? in which case we COULD un-instantiate him, make him disappear back into the aether. but that would be sad. so let's not.

[justin3am]

I was sitting here trying to remember what cause me to start listening to music differently, when my wife reminded me of an interview we saw of Dimebag Darrel of Pantera. He was talking about how can't tell if a person is talented or not, he can only hear passion. That really resonated with me, especially from someone who is in a band like Pantera.

In regard to Runagate's perspective; I suppose there has to be a dichotomy. Kinda' the matriarch v. the patriarch? If there were no discipline, people wouldn't progress but if there was no one to be nurturing, no one would have the drive to progress. I simply have no energy to be negative to anyone. Even when I'm critical, it's all about improvement.

[justin3am]

i just realized that runagate MIGHT be a figment of our (solium, justin, vurt, jazzyspoon, polyslax, you know the kvr insider outsiders) group imagination. a construct we've instantiated through the intersection of our unconventional musical tastes. here are the clues:

- he comes and goes mysteriously
- know one has ever met him (physically)
- he claims to be a giant
- yet claims to be on intimate terms with a midget
- his music is (quite often) catastrophically odd

perhaps we gave birth to runagate through our psychic connections? in which case we COULD un-instantiate him, make him disappear back into the aether. but that would be sad. so let's not.

That reminds me of the time I watched a Robert Anton Wilson lecture on entirely too much acid. He was talking about how our only concept of reality is from first person observation and interaction. I got to thinking about what a passive character I am in my own life (being that 90% of my actions and thoughts are a response to my surroundings). I began to think that perhaps I am just an abstract of another persons consciousness. It became so plausible in my mind that I ended up in a very bad place.

[rachmiel]

I simply have no energy to be negative to anyone. Even when I'm critical, it's all about improvement.

i got used to strong criticism when i studied music in germany. actually grew to love it ... because it derived from a gravitas that the music had for us. it was important enough to get worked up over. it MATTERED, like the quality of the air you breathe matters. that's what i miss most about my student days in europe ... the feeling that music was worth 'living' for.

[justin3am]

Oh, I can take negativity... pile it on! I just can't send it back out. I've tried (well no I haven't really).

[jancivil]

1. the organisch thread DID become somewhat nasty ... jancivil and i got going on each other, but we eventually calmed down.

2. runagate, i hope you don't think i'm disparaging your writing? quite the contrary: i get a huge kick out of your elliptical way with words and ideas. for me, your language is just another aspect of your music, your self.

1.) I'm not surprised. You two bicker in a too-civilized way for me to pick up on.

2.) Nope, not at all In essence I'm saying I hold back a lot more than I let on around here. IRL I literally will not lie to fellow bands/musicians about what I think about their music, so people have the sense not to ask if they don't want to know hehehehe. I'd like to think that I've prevented at least 2 or 3 emo bands from forming *crosses fingers*

good lord!

I wasn't aware that anything got anywhere approaching the realm of nasty!
Be assured, Rick, that I was calm throughout. Best conversation I've had in about twenty years, and I was amused by all of your posts in it. You and I are both full of excrement, from opposing aesthetic camps. I defected from your camp, for reasons which might be suspect to you. Them's the breaks.

I am very honest. This is a forum. which tends to suggest an exchange of ideas. I took the risk that vurt would not respond well to a critique (what I meant about a club, refers to the fact that vurt got a lot of strokes here, and, HONESTLY, my thought began to be 'you have got to be kidding me'); and I wouldn't begin to be apologetic about it. I think there are great sounds and even decent shapes in this, but it does appear to me, there is a kind of, if not contempt for, some decision made (fear?) not to craft any of it. That's my view, and as I've suggested, I am aware of other contexts than my own, in which such a view goes against the grain. (I'm pretty sure I never called vurt an elitist, that is an interpretative spin, which might reflect the atmosphere of which I speak.)

Once upon a time, I tried to take a vacation. It was so nice for a moment; the palm trees swaying in the breeze, the ocean lulling me to sleep, some decent mexican grass; bananas, donas and Nescafe by the beach in a cabana en las manana. No Conflict, No Struggle. That's fine for a minute, for most people, I'm sure.

I had an epiphany of sorts (I was a young person): struggle, and I mean when it Pisses You Off, is the requirement for creativity. Period. So, on here, there are people with real potential.
So, if I see that, being Lazy, if I think it's worth it, I'll pipe in.

Per etiquette:
If I hate the kind of music anyone makes, I say NOTHING. I have no interest in posting stuff on a forum which isn't helpful to anyone. [elsewhere: If linguistically I see a statement I know is corrupt, I'll call a spade a spade, if I'm in a mood for it. Someone in some BT thread tried to tell us that all music is equal, that believing a music is good or bad indicates only ignorance, and I didn't hold my breath. I wasn't 'nasty' though! ]

jancivil wrote:
which are like being stuck in a laundromat with 6 video games, and the brown acid isn't going to wear off anytime real soon

runagate wrote:

I could go either way on that one. It sounds like it has possibilities.

===

you already made that one a couple times. As did rachmiel. As rachmiel has the training to get away with it better, his is 'better crafted'. More was Subtracted.

and y'all can call me he or she, it doesn't matter.

jan

[vurt]

I took the risk that vurt would not respond well to a critique


i can indeed take critique, i get plenty of it over time.
i do not however always agree with it.

as to the "rachmiel has training to get away with it..." are you implying that only people who have studied on academic circles should be able to make the kind of things we enjoy making?