Live Use with Classic Rock Band
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- KVRist
- 45 posts since 30 Jul, 2007
I have a receptor rev c on order and will be using it live with my classic rock dance band. I know I'll need B4, but I'm at a loss as to which acoustic or electric piano will work best with my rig. I also need a screaming horn section, and often load piano, organ and the horn section at once to cover my parts. We have a sax player who I often double the brass parts with while I'm playing piano or organ, so I need horn samples that sound as real as possible and can be expressive in real time. I've seen some problems with akoustik piano posted, and I'm not sure how well Ivory will work in a rock setting. I have seen very little reviews on the web of any of the horn sections available. Any suggestions?
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi D.G.
I am pretty happy with Ivory. I think if you work on EQ settings (and perhaps set it up to be in 'mono') it would work just fine (in the rock setting you describe). The compelling thing for Ivory is it's playability (and how responsive the Ivory engine is).
For Horns, check out AMGs Kick Ass Brass. I find this has great sections, and very 'up front' and aggressive trumpets and saxes.
Also, as an alternative to B4ii, you may wish to check-out USB Charlie. It is a sample-set of B3/Leslie - which might be just the thing if you don't need to 'ride the drawbars' when you play. It is VERY sweet in a mix, and has a great "dirty' organ setting (think Pink Floyd - 'Dark side of the moon', or 'The Wall').
Regards,
Kevin L
I am pretty happy with Ivory. I think if you work on EQ settings (and perhaps set it up to be in 'mono') it would work just fine (in the rock setting you describe). The compelling thing for Ivory is it's playability (and how responsive the Ivory engine is).
For Horns, check out AMGs Kick Ass Brass. I find this has great sections, and very 'up front' and aggressive trumpets and saxes.
Also, as an alternative to B4ii, you may wish to check-out USB Charlie. It is a sample-set of B3/Leslie - which might be just the thing if you don't need to 'ride the drawbars' when you play. It is VERY sweet in a mix, and has a great "dirty' organ setting (think Pink Floyd - 'Dark side of the moon', or 'The Wall').
Regards,
Kevin L
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 45 posts since 30 Jul, 2007
Thanks Kevin,
I checked out USB Charlie, and I'm sorry to say it's been discontinued, so the only real choice there seems to be the B4. Have you used Kick ASS Brass live? If you have, please tell me more about your band and how you liked it.
Thanks,
Andy
I checked out USB Charlie, and I'm sorry to say it's been discontinued, so the only real choice there seems to be the B4. Have you used Kick ASS Brass live? If you have, please tell me more about your band and how you liked it.
Thanks,
Andy
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi again, Andy,
I have been in a Soul / R&B cover band, and we do everything from Motown (Stevie Wonder, Temptations, ....) to Tower of Power, Santana, Maroon 5, ....
Mostly, these genre requires brass sections, and little 'solo' playing of individual instruments.
I've been previously using stock 'section' samples from a roland synth. KAB replaced this in the last few gigs that I did. Nothing fancy here, I think I took two of the stock 'sections' presets, and alternated them on one of my controllers. The result was much more authentic and 'present' than the Roland. KAB also has some articulations that you can use to add more realism. Unfortunately, the KAB engine doesn't have keyswitching, so it is not so easy to map articulations for live playing. All in All, KAB is my go-to brass for live, and works well on Receptor.
I also messed around with Chris Hein Brass, which didn't seem to lend itself as well to sections (not as aggressive).
You might still be able to find Charlie from some retailers. It is like Spectrasonics Atmosphere - in that it is a ROMpler that loads the samples and plays from RAM (as opposed to disk streaming - like Kontakt). USB now offers the same sample set for PlugSound II (I think it's called Retro Organs). I have not tried the new (disk-streaming) engine on Receptor - but this would be another possibility.
Hope this helps,
Kevin L
I have been in a Soul / R&B cover band, and we do everything from Motown (Stevie Wonder, Temptations, ....) to Tower of Power, Santana, Maroon 5, ....
Mostly, these genre requires brass sections, and little 'solo' playing of individual instruments.
I've been previously using stock 'section' samples from a roland synth. KAB replaced this in the last few gigs that I did. Nothing fancy here, I think I took two of the stock 'sections' presets, and alternated them on one of my controllers. The result was much more authentic and 'present' than the Roland. KAB also has some articulations that you can use to add more realism. Unfortunately, the KAB engine doesn't have keyswitching, so it is not so easy to map articulations for live playing. All in All, KAB is my go-to brass for live, and works well on Receptor.
I also messed around with Chris Hein Brass, which didn't seem to lend itself as well to sections (not as aggressive).
You might still be able to find Charlie from some retailers. It is like Spectrasonics Atmosphere - in that it is a ROMpler that loads the samples and plays from RAM (as opposed to disk streaming - like Kontakt). USB now offers the same sample set for PlugSound II (I think it's called Retro Organs). I have not tried the new (disk-streaming) engine on Receptor - but this would be another possibility.
Hope this helps,
Kevin L
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- KVRist
- 173 posts since 3 Sep, 2007 from CT
On the high end the Scarbee EPs, NIs B4, and Ivory are great.
Checkout Soundfonts for some low price alternative to supplement the big boys.
On the low end Mr Tramp and Mr Ray are good EPS. VB3 is a good Hammond alternative. I think of these as supplemental to the above. I haven't loaded them onto receptor yet--probably this weekend.
NIs Electrik Pianos are really good but don't have the bite. They fit in some mixes very well. I find they match recordings closer than some EPs with more bite that sound funkier when playing but are less accurate.
AkoustiK Piano is a resource pig. I like its sound but
there is some latency. If I uprade Receptor when new hardware comes out it's for Akoustic Pianio.
I have some pianos in Kontakt that are bright and light weight and cut through mixes.
Checkout Soundfonts for some low price alternative to supplement the big boys.
On the low end Mr Tramp and Mr Ray are good EPS. VB3 is a good Hammond alternative. I think of these as supplemental to the above. I haven't loaded them onto receptor yet--probably this weekend.
NIs Electrik Pianos are really good but don't have the bite. They fit in some mixes very well. I find they match recordings closer than some EPs with more bite that sound funkier when playing but are less accurate.
AkoustiK Piano is a resource pig. I like its sound but
there is some latency. If I uprade Receptor when new hardware comes out it's for Akoustic Pianio.
I have some pianos in Kontakt that are bright and light weight and cut through mixes.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 45 posts since 30 Jul, 2007
Thanks Rich,
You're the first person who has mentioned Scarbee on a receptor.
Plugorama has no info on compatability.
How was the install and does it have any glitches?
Thanks,
Andy
You're the first person who has mentioned Scarbee on a receptor.
Plugorama has no info on compatability.
How was the install and does it have any glitches?
Thanks,
Andy
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Some additional info on Scarbee (KGB)
The Scarbeee KGB package for Kontakt contains all of their EPs (2 Rhodes, Wurli, D6 Clav). It contains large multi-layer 24 bit sample sets, and smaller 16-bit sample sets. On Receptor, at one time you could only reasonably run the smaller 16 bit sets. Today in Kontakt 2.2.3, you can run either reasonably on Receptor. The larger sets are quite detailed, and give a very convincing simulation of the real thing.
If you were running both Ivory/Akoustik Piano and Scarbee/Kontakt stacked on the same Midi channel, you might need to be careful of your ram allocation.
Regards,
Kevin L
The Scarbeee KGB package for Kontakt contains all of their EPs (2 Rhodes, Wurli, D6 Clav). It contains large multi-layer 24 bit sample sets, and smaller 16-bit sample sets. On Receptor, at one time you could only reasonably run the smaller 16 bit sets. Today in Kontakt 2.2.3, you can run either reasonably on Receptor. The larger sets are quite detailed, and give a very convincing simulation of the real thing.
If you were running both Ivory/Akoustik Piano and Scarbee/Kontakt stacked on the same Midi channel, you might need to be careful of your ram allocation.
Regards,
Kevin L
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- KVRist
- 173 posts since 3 Sep, 2007 from CT
I used the instructions on this forum and things went well. Time is the only gotcha as these large libararies like Ivory/Italian Grand and Scarbee chew up a full morning each.dudegruvy wrote:Thanks Rich,
You're the first person who has mentioned Scarbee on a receptor.
Plugorama has no info on compatability.
How was the install and does it have any glitches?
Thanks,
Andy
My only issue was the effects disk was missing on initial shipment. I got two copies of 16-bit Kontakt Disk 2.
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- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 22 Apr, 2005 from Nashville, TN USA
For piano you should check out http://www.pianoteq.com/
they have a fully function 30-day trial on Plugorama!
for EP, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Lounge Lizard EP-3.
I used Akoustik Piano and Elektric Piano at my last gig and was not really thrilled with either one in a Classic Rock setting. If I had taken more time to play with EQ, effects and stuff, I might have been happier. AP also has a bug where when you mute (unload) the channel where it sits a few times, it refuses to "wake up" without having to reload the patch. Not good.
Honestly for really rocking out, I found that the CP-80 sample in Colossus was just about the best thing I had for really "cutting through".
they have a fully function 30-day trial on Plugorama!
for EP, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Lounge Lizard EP-3.
I used Akoustik Piano and Elektric Piano at my last gig and was not really thrilled with either one in a Classic Rock setting. If I had taken more time to play with EQ, effects and stuff, I might have been happier. AP also has a bug where when you mute (unload) the channel where it sits a few times, it refuses to "wake up" without having to reload the patch. Not good.
Honestly for really rocking out, I found that the CP-80 sample in Colossus was just about the best thing I had for really "cutting through".
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Hyber,
Just curious - How do you find Colossus CP-80 eq-wise in a mix for a live setting?
For me, I've always felt previously that it was hard to balance the CPs - eg. the bass wouldn't have enough punch, or the high's would be thin.
Do you eq CP-80 when you use it, or use stock settings?
Curious minds want to know ....
Regards,
Kevin L
Just curious - How do you find Colossus CP-80 eq-wise in a mix for a live setting?
For me, I've always felt previously that it was hard to balance the CPs - eg. the bass wouldn't have enough punch, or the high's would be thin.
Do you eq CP-80 when you use it, or use stock settings?
Curious minds want to know ....
Regards,
Kevin L
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- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 22 Apr, 2005 from Nashville, TN USA
Ahh, I probably should have stated that I'm also playing keyboard bass with this band, so the lower end of the CP-80 was of no consequence to me in this settinglooneytunes wrote:Hi Hyber,
Just curious - How do you find Colossus CP-80 eq-wise in a mix for a live setting?
For me, I've always felt previously that it was hard to balance the CPs - eg. the bass wouldn't have enough punch, or the high's would be thin.
Do you eq CP-80 when you use it, or use stock settings?
Curious minds want to know ....
Regards,
Kevin L
I pretty much stay in the mid section as well.Also, I think in every song I used it in, I was laying with another piano (one from SonicSynth2 I think) or with EP and/or B4II.
For the record, though, yes the bass notes on this (and other) CP's I've tried is pretty lame. In my limited experience with the real thing, that also seemed to be the case.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 45 posts since 30 Jul, 2007
Thanks everyone. So far it looks like B4, Kick Ass Brass, Lounge Lizard, and Pianoteq or Ivory will cover all the bases. Has anyone tried to run all these at once as a multi on a receptor? I would like to avoid waiting for patches to load while the rest of the band stares at me (We've all been there before).
I'll be using 2 midi-merged keyboard controllers to call up receptor patches: eg, B4 on one keyboard and Piano on another.
I'm also curious about how much resources pianoteq will use vs Ivory. They both seem great and cost about the same. Has anyone tried both?
Thanks,
Andy
I'll be using 2 midi-merged keyboard controllers to call up receptor patches: eg, B4 on one keyboard and Piano on another.
I'm also curious about how much resources pianoteq will use vs Ivory. They both seem great and cost about the same. Has anyone tried both?
Thanks,
Andy
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- KVRist
- 39 posts since 4 Jul, 2007
I use Ivory, Scarbee, B4, plus Zebra, Atmosphere, Camel 5000 live and still have room for another plug or two on the ram side. Not sure how adding another streaming plug like KAB would effect the load, but as long as you are not triggering Ivory, Scarbee, and KAB all at the same time (all loaded but not on the same midi channel/layered) I think you will be fine. I've tried layering Scarbee and Ivory and I'm fine on a Receptor C, so it may be possible to play all three simultaneously without a problem.
It's amazing to have all of these instruments loaded up live and not have to deal with waiting for a patch change or loading something. I can't believe how far software synths have come now that I have a Receptor. Plus I never have to worry about a computer crashing or having a glitch.
It's amazing to have all of these instruments loaded up live and not have to deal with waiting for a patch change or loading something. I can't believe how far software synths have come now that I have a Receptor. Plus I never have to worry about a computer crashing or having a glitch.
dudegruvy wrote:Thanks everyone. So far it looks like B4, Kick Ass Brass, Lounge Lizard, and Pianoteq or Ivory will cover all the bases. Has anyone tried to run all these at once as a multi on a receptor? I would like to avoid waiting for patches to load while the rest of the band stares at me (We've all been there before).
I'll be using 2 midi-merged keyboard controllers to call up receptor patches: eg, B4 on one keyboard and Piano on another.
I'm also curious about how much resources pianoteq will use vs Ivory. They both seem great and cost about the same. Has anyone tried both?
Thanks,
Andy
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Will,
One quick clarification:
AMG Kick Ass Brass is not streaming - I believe it loads sample into static ram (like Atmosphere).
So KAB shouldn't be much problem with the streaming plugs.
Andy - I agree with Will. On a Pro, I've typically had enough headroom with Ivory, Kontakt, and a few compute intensive plugs. (As long as you max out the RAM in your Receptor ....) For 2 handed playing (without stacking instruments) and plugs on different midi channels, you shouldn't have any problems.
Regards,
Kevin L
One quick clarification:
AMG Kick Ass Brass is not streaming - I believe it loads sample into static ram (like Atmosphere).
So KAB shouldn't be much problem with the streaming plugs.
Andy - I agree with Will. On a Pro, I've typically had enough headroom with Ivory, Kontakt, and a few compute intensive plugs. (As long as you max out the RAM in your Receptor ....) For 2 handed playing (without stacking instruments) and plugs on different midi channels, you shouldn't have any problems.
Regards,
Kevin L
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- KVRist
- 39 posts since 4 Jul, 2007
Thanks for clarifying...might be another plug I should pick up.
I have a suspicion that you could play all three plugs layered; Ivory, Scarbee, KAB, two handed on your receptor pro...care to give it a try?
I have a suspicion that you could play all three plugs layered; Ivory, Scarbee, KAB, two handed on your receptor pro...care to give it a try?
looneytunes wrote:Hi Will,
One quick clarification:
AMG Kick Ass Brass is not streaming - I believe it loads sample into static ram (like Atmosphere).
So KAB shouldn't be much problem with the streaming plugs.
Andy - I agree with Will. On a Pro, I've typically had enough headroom with Ivory, Kontakt, and a few compute intensive plugs. (As long as you max out the RAM in your Receptor ....) For 2 handed playing (without stacking instruments) and plugs on different midi channels, you shouldn't have any problems.
Regards,
Kevin L