Best hardware controller for Zebra

[beej]

http://www.mawzer.com/index.php

Yes! That's *exactly* the opposite of what I'm suggesting and thinking of.

[beej]

Even if you had dedicated knobs for all 4 Oscs + 4 FM Oscs + 4 LFOs + 4 Filters + 2 XM Filters there are still a ton of things you can't do in Z2 with midi or even sending to VST variables.

Of course. No generic controller is going to complete exhaustively map out everything in a intuitive or logicla way, especially for more exotic instruments.

I'm saying I would like a design company to work through these problems. Like I say, I already got a number of ideas about how you could do some of this stuff, and yes, it does involve displays, maybe touch interfaces, dynamic labelling and other things. Thinking outside the box for some solutions.

We can't have enough real tactile controls for all parameters, but what we can do is be intelligent about using the controls we do have, grouping them and making them working 1000% better than current generic controllers, which don't even attempt to *try* to solve these problems - they just go "here's some knobs, do with them what you will..."

I'm completely confident that with current design skills and technology we can come up with *much* solutions than we have. I'm not asking for perfection, I just want to get 80% there rather than 10%, which is where we are now in my opinion.

No one is tackling this issue (again, probably because of the market and the complexity of the problem). Instead, we're seeing every company jump on the bandwagon and putting 16 knobs on a small keyboard and selling it as the ultimate controller solution. It's not.

[Meloday]

http://www.mawzer.com/index.php

Yes! That's *exactly* the opposite of what I'm suggesting and thinking of.

[ehdyn]

http://www.euphonix.com/artist/products/mc_control/


po' folks version
http://www.waveidea.com/

[beej]

Guys - we are talking about custom *synthesizer* keyboard controllers. Not mix controllers, DAW controllers, generic fader boxes, DJ tools, but a dedicated, custom *synthesizer* specific controller.

I know about generic controllers (I have them) and DAW controllers (I have Mackie Control).

They are not for programming synthesisers (although you can obviously tweak parameters), they are for controlling your DAW and plugins etc.

And yes, those Euphons look nice.

[Meloday]

Guys - we are talking about custom *synthesizer* keyboard controllers

OP

I'd rather find a controller with more than eight knobs. Having the ability to access all of the important parameters at one time would be best of live improvisation, wouldn't it?

just dropping suggestions that the OP might be interested in.

[amoeba]

oops - thanks meloday for the OP reminder...

the main external controller i use for zebra is the ol behringer bcr2000. it might be the only good thing they ever made... the big pluses for me are the feedback seen with the endless encoders and it has plenty of knobs. i wish all the encoders were also push-pots (only the top row is) but overall it does a great job with zebra. used, they are fairly cheap and easily found as well. 32 rotarys (8 are push and X 4 banks) 20 buttons, and 99 pages/programs. no driver needed. there is a crappy java programmer, but it is easy enough to set up. quite configurable as to what and how it sends as well. uses USB and/or MIDI.

[musiklov3r]

Wow! The power of the Zebra community is amazing. I also posted on big blue lounge and had only one response that didn't quite understand what I was asking for.

I think Beej is right on the money along with many of the other contributors in this thread. There isn't a good dedicated hardware controller yet for synths. Novation, with the Remote SL and the X-station are on the right track, but neither come close to what I think we all imagine in our heads. A beefed up version of the x-station somehow combined with the remote sl might be the closest thing I can imagine personally.

I attended Namm again this year and didn't see anything close to this vision and hoped that I had just missed it and a sophisticated Zebra user might have found the holy grail.

I hope for a 22" touch screen display as well although there aren't any keyboard stand makers that are thinking this way yet. (Another topic I'm looking for the answer to, a keyboard stand that can accommodate two keyboards and allow various controller interfaces above, including laptop, kore, various hardware controllers). But I guess it is the same topic, really. They're both about being able to interact with our software.

Gauging by the responses, I would guess that we are all looking for better ways to interact with our soft synths. Urs creates an amazing synth, but it lives in this awkward box that we can't really play with live. Sure, we can mouse around if we're not playing live, but it is much slower and much less organically intuitive than having a beast with many easily recognizable controller knobs. Even if the Remote Sl had 64 knobs and faders and we could fit everything on one page, wouldn't it be much nicer to have landmarks for osc sections, effects, filter section, etc?

This is the one area I truly miss about hardware analog synths, once you learned where everything was, you could move so quickly.

Maybe the Arturia Origin will provide this answer to us if we can customize it's interface to control other soft synths.

I hope that someone creates some sort of Origin/Remote SL combination that could server as a workhorse for all of our soft synths (even our Muse Receptors!) It doesn't have to control every single parameter. Much will be mouse driven and relegated to creating core structures or deep programming at home. But once the initial framework is created, to have control of 80% of the parameters with two hands, that would be the next level.


If any other controller interfaces come to mind in addition to the Remote SL and X-station that I already have, or alternative ways of using multiple controllers together (especially if you know of a stand to integrate them), please share!

And thanks again for all of the help and great responses.

[fas1piano]

"ol behringer bcr2000"

I really like it, too. that with the display scribble strips of the remote sl would be perfect, maybe in a little smaller housing...

other controllers:

i use a laptop on stage with brainspawn forte, two master keyboards, a faderfox lv1 for faders and joystick and the bcr2000.

i am thinking of having a wooden case made with a rather flat lower part to put in all the stuff. this would go on the upper tier of my K&m keyboard table (right now i am just using a wooden board, works ok, but looks rather diy). i really want to have everything in reach during shows, but of course it s better when it isn't too obvious that there is a laptop and a bunch of cables between you and the audience.

the masterkeyboards are a doepfer and a roland a50, i put the roland just on top of the doepfer. i use angled wooden supports at the back velcroed to the table because the doepfer is rather shallow. looks like an organ that way, but works rather well.

by the way, up to now i am using applied acoustics tassman and ultra analog as well as sympothm for synths. i am thinking about getting zebra for the poly aftertouch implementation. anyone using zebra with poly AT yet? soundwise, does anyone know tassman and UA? i really like those - will try zebra demo ASAP. i hope it will not be too complicated to get my head around yet another synth...

fab

[beej]

Guys - we are talking about custom *synthesizer* keyboard controllers

OP

I'd rather find a controller with more than eight knobs. Having the ability to access all of the important parameters at one time would be best of live improvisation, wouldn't it?

just dropping suggestions that the OP might be interested in.

Having read the OP's post, and his other posts on other forums, I knew what he was talking about, and replied accordingly, because it's a subject I'm very interested and have definite views in.

And it ain't about DAW controllers...

[auricle]

Well I'm thinking of buying a touchscreen monitor to use with my softsynths - primarily Zebra. Although I can only afford a 17" monitor, it'll have to do until I win the lottery

[Meloday]

Guys - we are talking about custom *synthesizer* keyboard controllers

OP

I'd rather find a controller with more than eight knobs. Having the ability to access all of the important parameters at one time would be best of live improvisation, wouldn't it?

just dropping suggestions that the OP might be interested in.

Having read the OP's post, and his other posts on other forums, I knew what he was talking about, and replied accordingly, because it's a subject I'm very interested and have definite views in.

And it ain't about DAW controllers...

Well, i haven't been following his other posts. I was only responding to this thread. And i re-read the OP and I thought i gave a fair recommendation

[amoeba]

"ol behringer bcr2000"
I really like it, too. that with the display scribble strips of the remote sl would be perfect, maybe in a little smaller housing...

check this out: Mackie C4 Pro
kinda like a remoteSL meets a BCR. but damn, i'd have a hard time paying 5 times more for a controller than the synth it's controlling... very much in the right direction for me, tho.

i use angled wooden supports at the back velcroed to the table because the doepfer is rather shallow. looks like an organ that way, but works rather well.

i have the typical proline stands, and just got an ultimate Vstand (which i love). for all of them, i use wire shelves from those modular systems found at home depot and the like. one brand (can't remember which) has a 2" bend at a right angle along one length (perfect for hooking over the back of the stand arms) and a smaller "lip" bend on the other length, on the opposite side (perfect for keeping all your crap from slipping off). very sturdy, very lightweight, and they actually look pretty good. you can get them in various lengths, but they can easily be cut down to custom sizes if needed. i get the 18" width ones (perfect fit for stand arms) but they come in 12" and 24" widths as well.

to add, another nice thing about the wire shelves is it's easy to strap stuff down to it. i even strap stuff underneath it (like my interface, and a 1U rack effects unit), as well as easily strapping the shelves themselves down to the stand arms with velcro strips.

[fas1piano]

yeah, we're all in the same diy boat, cause the hardware people still don't imagine laptops, interfaces and controllers on stage for keyboard players...

mackie c4 could be cool BUT:

- proprietary protocol. very uncool if you don't use their favorite host. probably pitch bend data and such: yuk - no midi learn possible with most vsts.

- it's too big and too heavy. i am planning on getting a second bcr2000 for rehearsal room, so i ll just have to carry the little faderfox.


your wire shelf idea is interesting! looks are maybe a little too much industrial, though...how do hide ugly cables and power line extenders and such? and how do you do the strapping?

- beej, sorry about taking this discussion so much down to earth. your ideas are great, but i m afraid you r in for some heavy diy project. i'll rather take a good joystick (not pitch lever!) or a trackpad (like on moog voyager) together with poly aftertouch and decent wheels today than imagining some ultra sci-fi stuff for the future... -

oh, and about the stand: v-stands and such don't work for me, cause i need room for expression and other pedals! so i need the table.

[beej]

The C4 is great, and I'd like one (as well as an XT) to go with my MCU. But all it is is some knobs and screens. it doesn't have controls arranged like a synthesiser, with an oscillator section, a filter section, an adsr section, the possibility for graphic envelope displays, etc etc, so is not what we (well, *I* ) am talking about here...

Sorry to hijack to much, I'm just quite passionate/vocal on this subject, because it's a product I really want...