Splitting parts

[muzycian]

Maybe the the current workflow for splitting parts could be optimized.

I got this idea:

Lets remove the split tool, and just rightclick a part at the desired split position and choose "Split Part(s)" from the popup menu.

If multiple parts are selected, all selected parts will be splitted at that same position.

What do you think?

[Bonteburg]

sounds good, especially as I always seem to get slowed down by constantly going back and forth between the tool palette and the tracks ...the pencil always seems to be in the way, asking me whether I want to create an audio part or a sequence part when I really want to copy and paste/nudge stuff around.

Why not go 100 per cent, remove the palette altogether and have a pop up menu do it all? ("create part at cursor point" etc)?

The part could default to 1 bar and you could still draw it longer with the "automatic pencil" that appears when you roll over the ends of a part.

On a related note, being able to delete more than one sequence (directly from the sequence pool) in one go would be a real plus!




edit: changed "sequence" to "part" where appropriate to avoid total confusion ...

[deleted]

DELETED

[pljones]

What do you think?

This is such a good idea I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it .

I'd still like to be able to type in bar/beat/tick positions, though -- I've requested the same for positioning the start/loop/end markers, so I don't want to lose it here!

[muzycian]

I'm still in favor of a shortkey system - i'm not shure if workflow will become better when surfing pop-up menus.toggling between pencil,lasso and scissor with a shortcut seems ok to me.

1) Do you know that pressing T pops up the tool box?

2) The suggested idea should be a speed up in the worklflow anyway, with or without any keyboard shortcuts.

3) Technically, the suggested idea about splitting parts and being able to do things (eventually including this) with the keyboard are 2 different things.

I mean: the Quick Key system should be a generic answer to almost any "i want to do this with that key" request.

4) Strange, i often get requests for keyboard shortcuts, but in the "Most Wanted New Feature" poll, keyboard shortcuts got only 4% of the votes...

Anyway, i know it's an important feature!

That's why i want to properly think it thru (there are several aspects on it), instead of blindlessly hard-coding keyboard shortcuts.

[muzycian]

This is such a good idea I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it .

I'd still like to be able to type in bar/beat/tick positions, though -- I've requested the same for positioning the start/loop/end markers, so I don't want to lose it here!

Damn

It's already in there

Right-click a part -> Part -> Split

And even with the typing aspect.

So i propose to fine tune that a bit more and remove the split tool as it's more 'misleadingly in the way' than 'really adding quality'.

[deleted]

DELETED

[muzycian]

sounds good, especially as I always seem to get slowed down by constantly going back and forth between the tool palette and the tracks ...the pencil always seems to be in the way, asking me whether I want to create an audio part or a sequence part when I really want to copy and paste/nudge stuff around.

Just hold Shift when you want to select parts with the Pencil

And if you want to unselect all parts with the pencil: Hold Shift and doubleclick the background.

And you can easily combine both described actions in 1 go:

Hold Shift doubleclick, and on the 2nd click you start lassoing around!

Cfr http://www.mutools.com/mulab/docs/composer.html

Why not go 100 per cent, remove the palette altogether and have a pop up menu do it all? ("create part at cursor point" etc)?

The part could default to 1 bar and you could still draw it longer with the "automatic pencil" that appears when you roll over the ends of a part.

Yep, i also want a further streamlining of the 'tool-ing'.

And you triggered an idea:

What about removing the toolbox.

Then the 'only' tool = arrow. It can be used for selecting, moving, copying etc... just like now.

When you hover the start/end of a part, it auto changes in the pencil for tweaking the start/end; just like it is now.

Deleting parts = select the relevant parts and press Delete.

Splitting can be done cfr this thread.

So then we only got one thing to cover: creating new parts.

Well: lets say Control + arrow click in the background = create new part.

And so you can immediately draw the length you want

Yeah, sounds very good to me, as well as from technical as conceptual as ergonomic view point

Only 1 little critical point:

A newbie user cannot intuitively know that he/she has to hold Control to create a new part

In fact, that's the very reason why we now have the arrow AND the pencil, although the pencil can do almost everything.

But just for the newbies the arrow is explicitly there in case you don't know about the Shift + Arrow = Select parts (cfr the beginning of this post).

Mmm, so changing things like described here above just would move that 'you need some pre-info' aspect to another point, although i do find this new system a little bit better than the current tool/modifier functionality because it's more gentle to "control + arrow" = create part than for a "shift + pencil" = select parts. Agreed?

And eventually we could also have a "Create New Part" in the Composition context menu. And pressing Insert key = new part at mouse location.

Mmm, i hope i didn't make this post too complicated.

Will think this all over a bit more.

[muzycian]

Jo, i know about "pressing T" - this is what made me feel ok with splitting parts - only minor downside to my : press T, select tool with mouse, work with tool - i could think of pressing T to just switch to the next tool and no need to select tool with mouseclick!

Yeah, i see.

Let me first try to further minimize any need to switch tools anyway.

If then tool switching is still there, we could do what you suggest.

Please remind me for this if i would forget. Thanks.

[GermanFafian]

What about removing the toolbox.

Then the 'only' tool = arrow. It can be used for selecting, moving, copying etc... just like now.

When you hover the start/end of a part, it auto changes in the pencil for tweaking the start/end; just like it is now.

Deleting parts = select the relevant parts and press Delete.

Splitting can be done cfr this thread.

So then we only got one thing to cover: creating new parts.

Well: lets say Control + arrow click in the background = create new part.

And so you can immediately draw the length you want


Will think this all over a bit more.

That sounds great! Very ergonomic and fast. Newbies will need a pop up or something when starting (like a tips window that pops up and can be turned off when the program loads) to tell them of the main short cuts and uses.
Let's roam this a lttle and come up with a noob solution

[Oxygenee]

I would love to have a split tool that can split a part at the click position, move the selected split position (freely as wel as incrementally) while dragging and combine two previously separated parts into one.

You will work out the workflow details for sure, Jo!

Any thoughts?

[MachFront]

I have to disagree with taking away the tool box.
I for one think it's very fast as well as intuitive. And it most certainly is newbie-friendly. It's just so quick and easy to me, that I don't see how the other option is quicker.

Forgive me, but how is pressing buttons as well as pressing buttons + right-clicking, and each time too, faster than 'click center mouse button, left-click to select tool'. Click,click. Done.

[muzycian]

I have to disagree with taking away the tool box.
I for one think it's very fast as well as intuitive. And it most certainly is newbie-friendly. It's just so quick and easy to me, that I don't see how the other option is quicker.

Because if you would not have to switch tools at all, that would be even quicker!

But i do agree with you that it should be simple & easy, also for newbie users.

Now i've been thinking more about this.

I think adding the "control + arrow over background = pencil" shortcut is very ok.

Because then you can do everything with the pencil. (cfr now)

AND you can do everything with the arrow

So a newbie user can do it all as both the arrow and pencil are always available.

And an experienced user can choose which of both tools works best for him/her, and never have to switch tools anymore.

[pljones]

Are you thinking of going all the way and having Ctrl effectly alter between Arrow and Pencil tools..? (With the other modifiers then applying to the switched tool.) That is, if you have selected Arrow from the toolbox, Ctrl makes it act like Pencil; if you have selected Pencil, Ctrl makes it act like Arrow. Would this mean adjusting the other modifiers?

[muzycian]

If you got the arrow, then pressing ctrl will turn it into the pencil as long as you hold the control key.

And since the control + pencil is not used, there is no conflict.