live performance of experimental electronic music...

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Jazzyspoon wrote:...stage speakers are most often not pointing at you, so you'll be detached from your sound if you're not careful and stage monitors, if they exist at a venue, don't often work very well for full mixes.
Back when I was playing in a band we made our own stage monitors and always brought our own amp for the stage monitors. I designed them by basically copying what I saw at a music store. 15" woofers and a good horn tweeter. They actually produced pretty damned good sound and they saved our lives because there's nothing odder than sitting behind the house speakers (which are blaring at unbearable volume) and hearing absolutely nothing you're doing. The only time our stage monitors backfired on us was when we were performing at a battle of the bands and the "stage" was a corrugated steel house-like box on a raised cement platform. Our sound was echoing around like nothing I've ever heard!

But we were lucky with sound men. The very first gig we played the house sound man liked our band so much that he hooked up with us and did our sound on all our gigs. He was damned good, too.

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i've donw some live gigs too and I feel very much its a long crusade still to follow until I've fouind 'the ultimate' setup.

some really interesting insights here, tkx. especially that its not wise to do it alone..


some thoughts on this topic:

- hardware is good. transport is quite a problem. b4 I used a computer I once brought 3 synths, 1 rack, 1 sampler, hw sequencer, + more..and it slimming down since then ;)
but: if you know your hardware gear you can easily jam. mastery of an instrument is the most valuable for live. and with software you'll never have that feel (its just the advantage of software that u can change things all the time).
- controllers are good. maybe even a must if you have a laptop.

- not mentioned b4 afaik: its hard to make a quality set that is not boring for YOU! not everybody would agree here I reckon. but: I had sometimes good results but I wasn't really into playing. and this lack of energy can be felt by the audience. I am quite radical here, playing back precorded things I really try to avoid. yet I was often disappointed that I could not reach the quality of my recordings (surprisingly, hehe).
still you have to do someting that is fun for YOU in the first place. if you are a slave to your preinstructed setup its boring and every DJ transports more musical energy.


actually I am working on a liveact where I use Usine and vsti's mostly. still thinking about wheter I take my Roland JP8000 with me (my first gear, know it by heart) to have a second sound source for backup (just hold a arpeggio or phrase when the computer goes down) and doubling voices on the fly (often with specific presets for a song but less prepared midi input).
further I am using a BCR2000, the laptop keyboard (via mkey vst), a Nintendo Wii Controller (didnt tried on stage yet, sadly there is no single vst to convert it, have to use glovePIE and virtual midi drives). a big question is for me if I should take my Doepfer Schaltwerk with me, havent done for years, and the Schalt is sadly quite limited software-wise (the hardware is killer) but I know it quite inside out. I am also not sure if I bring my mixer. I am trying to do that software-wise (getting a BCF2000 for that job), but my songs usually ate up already too much cpu, so I am prolly still forced to use external gear for sendFX/eq'ing. cpu savings are loweing the khz from 44.1 to 32, in most cases a live gig environment does not let you hear the difference (depends on sound genre too of course)..

- just a question: how do you guys handle mixer jobs? volume control is central imho, (and its nice to have separated drum categories here for creative mutes (bd, hh, sn, perc.)), what about eq'ing, panning, sendFX on a real mixer? very often I could not get to do it on the stage thu.

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ew wrote:If you're a laptop musician, you almost definitely need something going on visually.
cabinfever wrote:The audience needs to see that you're actively doing something important.A guy at a laptop in crushingly dull. It is always dull. It can never be anything but dull. Likewise a guy tweaking some unseen knobs or dials that may or may not be really doing something. Dull. Tweaking unseen knobs while trying to dance - not dull, just laughably woeful.
shamann wrote:It's the screen and mouse click approach to laptops which are a real downer to watch.

If you want to play live, buy a bassguitar, hook up with a drummer and a nice chick to play tambourine.
Thats fun to watch.
Dance music is about going to a rave, have a laugh, drink, smoke and dance to music that is just absolutely perfect sounding, and through the evening just get better and better.
If the music is performed by a dj or a laptop guy or whatever is just irrelevant. If thats a topic , then the music is just not good enough.

I totally agree that going to a breakcore event and watching a laptop guy tweaking his custom maxmsp beatrepeater is dredful. If the music was perfect, i would not be watching his knob twidling, i would be partying.
I think a very few electronic musicians is able to nail it the way the best djs are, and i think alot of it aint actually "live" either..
a few exceptions off course, monolake on top of my head


I think its best to spend your money on gear to use in your studio to make the best sounding tracks you can.

Then you get very famous and booked to big raveparties where most of the people dont even see you perform, and everybody dance and your playing on expensive soundsystemand everybody is happy.
If you then just press play on a cd player, or you jam your music with final scratch or whatever doesnt really matter.
Off course, if your king of the rave and actually is improvising/ performing live that is ubercool!!


cheers

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flex nes wrote:Dance music is about going to a rave, have a laugh, drink, smoke and dance to music that is just absolutely perfect sounding, and through the evening just get better and better.
I agree with you 100%

But we weren't talking about dance music, really. I wasn't at least.

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Chuck E. Jesus wrote:justin: aren't you also a singer? simply singing and having a bit of stage presence can go a long way...
that's what they say on American Idol, you know.
Eins zwei drei vier funf sechs sieben acht

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shamann wrote:
flex nes wrote:Dance music is about going to a rave, have a laugh, drink, smoke and dance to music that is just absolutely perfect sounding, and through the evening just get better and better.
I agree with you 100%

But we weren't talking about dance music, really. I wasn't at least.
I agree as well... If I were to perform in front of a crowd that was ready to dance, I would fail miserably. Electronic music doesn't always equal "beats". For the most part my live set doesn't have a set rhythm. I'm mostly going to be playing shows for nerds. People that anticipate a guy with a laptop staring at his screen. My point in this inquiry was to get information about how I could exceed those expectations. I have no preconception of being able to successfully play a rave party.

I actually have a bass and I'm considering using that as another sound source to make things interesting, I just hope no one expects a Tom Jenkinson level of virtuosity. :hihi:

I guess a point that needs to be made is that there will always be people that see a guy with a laptop and say "oh, another one of these douche bags" :roll: Then there are people, like me, who don't give a f**k who is performing and how they are doing it... if the music is good you could be playing your iTunes library and I'd still be happy. I just want to give the people that are prepared for a nerd with a 'puter more to look at than a nerd with a 'puter. :)

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dirty oscillators wrote:
Chuck E. Jesus wrote:justin: aren't you also a singer? simply singing and having a bit of stage presence can go a long way...
that's what they say on American Idol, you know.
You gave it your all dog, and I can appreciate that but... ya know what I mean? simply singing and having a bit of stage presence can go a long way...

Yeah, I can see Randy Jackson saying that... :hihi:

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maybe Bones will chime in, seasoned laptop performer that he is. I know that Sik drums live on electro-drums over the backing beats.

as far as on-the-road stuff. In my limited experience on the other end:
-Bring a mini rack with a powerconditioner (some stage plugs are wonky)
-xoxos' stereo feed rings true, fo sho.
bring your own host of CLEARLY LABLED adapters so you can
1.push whatever signal anywhere you want regardless of house limitations (which usually isn't a problem if they have lots of electronic music. You would thing 1/4" would be standard....)
2.Get your gear back. in fact, label every frickin' thing.
-turn your screen saver off if you leave the keyboard - sounds stupid, but it seems to screw things up once in a while.

I've never gigged, mind you, so take it all with a salt lick.

and now, the cherry on top:
bring a 1/8" phone adapter. Put your # on the screen, have people in the club call up. Snag the audio they send and mix it into your performance.

They will crown you king of the scene 8)
..what goes around comes around..

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ouroboros wrote: and now, the cherry on top:
bring a 1/8" phone adapter. Put your # on the screen, have people in the club call up. Snag the audio they send and mix it into your performance.

They will crown you king of the scene 8)
Now that's an excellent idea... I like that.

ew
A spectral heretic...

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for me, i'd rather hear really great music by someone with boring stage presence or hiding behind a laptop than hear really bad music by someone who jumps around the stage and has props and all that....
Eins zwei drei vier funf sechs sieben acht

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The XY controllers on Numerology and Zebra make a pretty good live rig with some forethought. No need to use pre-recorded sequences. Get autistic, and make it up on the fly.

Try turning around - let the audience see what you're doing on your lappy. Projector perhaps?

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Shock therapy usually works to get attention.

Try putting your pants down in the middle of a performance and see what happens. :)

I'm not joking actually... some kind of a "shock" works wonders. Think about it. Maybe not as radical as the abovementioned, but maybe a cruel joke or something... nah, you're playing electronica, not industrial. ;) Whatever, you have to be a bit different. At least fake a fall or something so people will remember you.

Cheers!
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Shock therapy?


Dino Felipe , and Cex have already perfected that.

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DuX wrote:Try putting your pants down in the middle of a performance and see what happens. :)
that especially works if you've got a bad case of herpes and genital warts.
Eins zwei drei vier funf sechs sieben acht

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the main things are:

NO BEER NEAR THE GEAR!!!!
mate, you have no idea, the amount of stuff I lost because of that.

if you just give a stereo out, like if you got your own mixer, then get an EXTREMELY long cable finishing with PHONO RCA, as you are likely to plug into the dj mixer, and always carry with you those rca to jack or rca to xlr adaptor. they are the true life saver.

always get a torch/ headtorch with you+ leatherman or any kind of multitool, and a fuse or 2...

try to set up as early as you can!

use a mouse, it's quicker than the pad to trigger stuff in ableton live.

have you got one of those USB led torch?

everything else as been brillantly exposed by everybody else here.
:wink:
It's not what you use, it's how you use it...

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