LA2A, Fairchild, 1176LN, Neve 1093, ... plug in, plug away

[vieris]

I made some A/B between the liquid mix and UAD before. the UAD are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than the LM. the controller is cool though.

Yeah the LM is just a bunch of impulses. Way underwhelming to me. Never have been a fan of convolution anything.

[vieris]

Where I went to school they have a small Capricorn system in the control room for studio D. It was a bear to work with and the DSP indeed did not sound up to par with even the Sound Craft or Allen and Heath boards we used for live sound reinforcment... let alone the VR60 I became familiar with at my former employer's place or even moderate level native plug-ins.

I know that some of the folks at Sonalksis peviously worked for Neve but I have a tough time hearing a connection between the Capricorn algorithms and SV series. I remember using the peaking filter on the Capricorn and having a tough time using the "Pump and Pull" method because they way the peak resonated (even with a relatively gentle Q) made everything sound like it needed to be pulled I also seem to remember that the attack characteristics of the compressor were not well suited for hyping drum transients.

I can understand though, if there is code culled directly from Neve projects, how one might be wary of their products. As an owner of their products I'm very happy with the results they give me, though not because they sound like gear I'm familiar with. If the SV-series algos did originate from the Capricorn DSP, the Sonalksis folks certainly have improved upon it by leaps and bounds.

All that being said, I'm no expert, I could be wrong.

Well there you go.. I trust justins ears over the disgruntled neve engineers i deal with. I'm sure they learned allot from working there and used that to improve there own work. Why the hell not.

[Compyfox]

Since I don't want to let this thing die out, and some questions are still unanswered, I want to keep this thread alive for a little longer.


I found a couple of other simulations, at least it's looking like that, by chance while I was looking for a transient tool that was posted a while ago here on KVR's Database entries.

Anyway, among them are these:
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12413 Limiter = 1969 version is from the TG12410 Transfer desks, 2005 version is closer to the Chandler TG1
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12412 Tone = TG12410 Transfer (or mastering) Desks
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12414 Filter = TG12410 Transfer (or mastering) Desks

Thing is, only the Limiter is available so far, the others's are still on TBA in the database. They're all available acording to their page however, but it seems that only the EQs are ProTools bound. To be honest, I've never heard of the hardware counterparts, but from the looks, it's something that Neve adapted (the looks at least)?

Then there's Nomad Factory with their Analog Mastering, Signature and Retrology series, but no special mention of "what" this stuff if built after, unless it's like T-RackS and has no specific hardware counterpart. However they seem to hold the rights of the rerelease of the BBE Sonic Maximizer plugin version of that old hardware exciter.

And there's DUY with DaD Tape and MagicEQ in the native realm now. Though I remember those plugins for ProTools being general "analog warming" rather than rebuilding something. Unless we talk about "Analog Channel 1" (AC-1), which is a totally different issue.

[Chrisma]

Since I don't want to let this thing die out, and some questions are still unanswered, I want to keep this thread alive for a little longer.


I found a couple of other simulations, at least it's looking like that, by chance while I was looking for a transient tool that was posted a while ago here on KVR's Database entries.

Anyway, among them are these:
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12413 Limiter = 1969 version is from the TG12410 Transfer desks, 2005 version is closer to the Chandler TG1
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12412 Tone = TG12410 Transfer (or mastering) Desks
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12414 Filter = TG12410 Transfer (or mastering) Desks

Thing is, only the Limiter is available so far, the others's are still on TBA in the database. They're all available acording to their page however, but it seems that only the EQs are ProTools bound. To be honest, I've never heard of the hardware counterparts, but from the looks, it's something that Neve adapted (the looks at least)?

Then there's Nomad Factory with their Analog Mastering, Signature and Retrology series, but no special mention of "what" this stuff if built after, unless it's like T-RackS and has no specific hardware counterpart. However they seem to hold the rights of the rerelease of the BBE Sonic Maximizer plugin version of that old hardware exciter.

And there's DUY with DaD Tape and MagicEQ in the native realm now. Though I remember those plugins for ProTools being general "analog warming" rather than rebuilding something. Unless we talk about "Analog Channel 1" (AC-1), which is a totally different issue.

Actually, the T-Racks compressor is modelled after the Fairchild 670 Limiter.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 87#1329987

FYI

T.

[Compyfox]

hm... the dual SR/IKM branding. Would have prefered if the people from IKM would written that directly onto their page, especially since the head chief of SR also says "as far as I know", but it's a start. So that's for that link, Chrisma.

What's your opinion on that link, vieris?

[Toonman]

I still don't completely get the point of this investigation, but just a heads-up... in your Gearbox list, you missed the Avalon preamp... thought I'd bring it up... cheers!

[Compyfox]

Indeed did I forget that. The Avalon is the Modern Preamp in GearBox, which I always tend to use as channelstrip in the master channel, and lately even as plugin in the recording chain (combined with the LA-2A emulation).

And why don't you get it? To me it's a combined pool of information (now) - maybe even for others too. And this is the whole point of this thread... what's "below the hood" from those firms who say that their stuff is "analog modelled". It's a starting point for those who're lost/don't know the old hardware counterpart (and maybe want to read up on them), and/or to those who might look for a certain "sound".

So yeah., less bragging on about it, more information please. Still a couple of unanswered questions.

[bduffy]

Since I don't want to let this thing die out, and some questions are still unanswered, I want to keep this thread alive for a little longer.


I found a couple of other simulations, at least it's looking like that, by chance while I was looking for a transient tool that was posted a while ago here on KVR's Database entries.

Anyway, among them are these:
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12413 Limiter = 1969 version is from the TG12410 Transfer desks, 2005 version is closer to the Chandler TG1
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12412 Tone = TG12410 Transfer (or mastering) Desks
Abbey Road Plugins EMI TG12414 Filter = TG12410 Transfer (or mastering) Desks

Thing is, only the Limiter is available so far, the others's are still on TBA in the database. They're all available acording to their page however, but it seems that only the EQs are ProTools bound. To be honest, I've never heard of the hardware counterparts, but from the looks, it's something that Neve adapted (the looks at least)?

Then there's Nomad Factory with their Analog Mastering, Signature and Retrology series, but no special mention of "what" this stuff if built after, unless it's like T-RackS and has no specific hardware counterpart. However they seem to hold the rights of the rerelease of the BBE Sonic Maximizer plugin version of that old hardware exciter.

And there's DUY with DaD Tape and MagicEQ in the native realm now. Though I remember those plugins for ProTools being general "analog warming" rather than rebuilding something. Unless we talk about "Analog Channel 1" (AC-1), which is a totally different issue.

Just so you know: those Abbey Road Limiters f**king rule. bManic said they don't come close to the real thing when he heard an A/B, however. Which makes we wonder just how good the O.G. sounds!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Just to chime in, neither the T-Racks Compressor nor Limiter can attain that superfast attack of a Fairchild. The compressor doesn't get anywhere near that fast, making it useless for killing transients on a drum track. The limiter has a faster attack than the compressor as expected, but still can't do that round sounding pumping/suck that the 670 excels at. What I'm talking about is the sound where it kills the attack on the kick hits in a big way, then takes a deep breath, causing the cymbals to sound like they're being sucked out of the track (i.e. the reverse cymbal sound that people associate with the Beatles Revolver era sounds).

The UAD version actually does that sound fairly easily. In fact, Daniel's TLS-2095 does a better job at this than the T-Racks stuff IMO (mess with both releases), and I believe the 2095 was modelled after an Opto compressor. What I think that goes to show is this: your better off learning the compressors you have better and getting them to work for you in a way you like than to expect the "models" or the "inspired-bys" to provide some sort of magic.

Compressors should be like cars in that you should learn to drive on something that gets you from A to B, and get a feel for what driving is. After you're comfortable driving, and know what you like and dislike about cars, then you start looking around for something beter.

[Compyfox]

I agree in terms of learning. But like I said earlier, it's not about looking for a "new toy" because I couldn't understand the old one.

It'S general information, and all your input is greatly appreciated. Especially if you A/Bed the plugins and it's hardware counterpart - if it's built after one.


So yeah...

[bmanic]

Just so you know: those Abbey Road Limiters f**king rule. bManic said they don't come close to the real thing when he heard an A/B, however. Which makes we wonder just how good the O.G. sounds!

The analogue hardware sounds awesome. Truly awesome. The plugin is fine but a bit "rough" somehow. Kind of like the difference between non-oversampled waveshaping and 16x oversampled waveshaping (when driven hard, one is kind of "smooth" distortion while the other is "rough").

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

Compressors should be like cars in that you should learn to drive on something that gets you from A to B, and get a feel for what driving is. After you're comfortable driving, and know what you like and dislike about cars, then you start looking around for something beter.

EXCELLENT analogy!

Once you have learned the basics of race driving, only then can one truly start appreciating the subtle differences of handling and how that translates to overall performance!

Cheers!
bManic

[bduffy]

Just so you know: those Abbey Road Limiters f**king rule. bManic said they don't come close to the real thing when he heard an A/B, however. Which makes we wonder just how good the O.G. sounds!

The analogue hardware sounds awesome. Truly awesome. The plugin is fine but a bit "rough" somehow. Kind of like the difference between non-oversampled waveshaping and 16x oversampled waveshaping (when driven hard, one is kind of "smooth" distortion while the other is "rough").

Cheers!
bManic

Well, there you go. Kind of like the difference between "light" and normal Hagen Daas.

[Compyfox]

Since you're in here and contribute to this thread, bmanic, and you're also mainly drawn into the compressor discussions on this board, care to elaborate on those plugins who weren't commented on yet?

For example, the Nomad Factory ones or maybe even on the T-RackS ones again, if you know and A/Bed it with the the from Sonic Reality mentioned Fairchild 670 Limiter.

I'm just curious.

[ddummer]

My definition of sucktion is:

Without : "Flop... Flop.. Flop.. pahh.."
With: "Flobba..Flobba.Flobba.pahh.."

//Daniel