Mixed impressions on u-he Zebra

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Urs wrote:Other than that, hmmm, there's not much colouring. A quite interesting thing that occurred to me recently is the multiband processing in the ModFX unit (and shapers). Due to the band splitting one gets quite some mangled phases when the Eq is turned on (which it is by default). Maybe switching off the Eq in the Chorus section is helpful for people with phase sensitive speakers. Must investigate more on this, can't be too much of a big deal though.

;) Urs
I tend to turn ModFX EQ off because of the same phase thing. I leave ModFX EQ on when i need to smear a sound.


@TiUser,

I understand what you gettin at and its a very subjective thing which is hard to describe, but i do have similar feelings towards other sound generators. My definition is somehow other than yours. I use 3 categories, full bit, half bit and quarter bit and you might think of it as stacked oscillators, in short its the thickness of a waveform on a percieved 3 dimensional level. Then there is the percieved color of a waveform, do the color cover it full, half or 1/4. The coloring is interesting because it seems to be more important than the actual thickness of a waveform.

When in doubt about a waveform i usually sample it to examine it more closely and play it from c3 down to c1 in sequence to see if its a smooth progression or it suddenly starts an uneven resonance balance. If a waveform was faked warm by adding low freq's this little trick well tell you in no time.

Hmmm what am i getting at, dunno but its always interesting with talks about percieved sound :)

/Michael
www.xsynth.com - Sound Synthesis with Vintage flavour

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TiUser wrote:But maybe there are some who have evaluated similar strange experiences, maybe not with zebra but other synths. Maybe that helps me to find out what is odd in my ears...
I get a similar feeling from Massive and Tera, but certainly not from Z2. The "Arturia sound" also seems to polarize people (BTW: Strangely, I'm fairly neutral about that!)

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:o
ive only just put two and two together :oops:
i didnt realise you were that howard, gong have been one of my fave bands since birth :lol:
nice to meet you, and here of all places :oops:
:ud:

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TiUser wrote:
D-Fusion wrote:My guess would be the Volume difference :D
1db to high or to low can really make a difference to the sound.
No, the simple PC setup speakers I use when surfing the net has lower volume than the "more professional" setup with virus D/A and better speakers.

It may sound odd, but I always check music on simple and better speakers and a good mix or sound works always well on both but this counter experience is really odd.


Hi, the testing hours don't have to be sequential :wink: I agree having a variety of test speakers is good, but more so for a near-final mix, than testing an instrument. Having $headphones$ that fill or snuggly cover the ears
helps to hear the nuance of each preset and edit. Nuance is rare in top 40 circles as the
Pointy Haired Boss in the studio got a compressor that rooLZ, and won't let it rest.
Find a Zebra patch similar to your goto sound, put it in a folder with the %randomizer
script, and make a dozen new patches...of those, 4 or 5 will be ones you like, or can easily edit to your liking. :)

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vurt wrote::o
ive only just put two and two together :oops:
i didnt realise you were that howard, gong have been one of my fave bands since birth :lol:
nice to meet you, and here of all places :oops:
:roll:
[Insert Signature Here]

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TiUser wrote:
I've gone through a couple of Zebra demos again... I am sorry, I am even more off the track I tried to walk along but there is anything subtle in every sound I don't like... something like "noble plastic", but it's hard to find any word for it and it's very subtle, not obvious.
Hi TiUser,

While I totally agree that audios demos are a good starting point to have a global idea of a synthesizer, especially if you like them and if they fullfill at once your needs, and provided that these are not "fake" demos, there are some cases where it's clearly not enough to judge of the capabilities of a synth because :

1/ Factory patches very often reflect the choice of the developper : One reason can be that the dev has made a lot of the presets himself, the other beeing that the dev is a human being, has subjective tastes, and will always look for instruments close to his own wishes and overall vision of music.

2/ Except for a few very big companies, factory patches are always made by a few, if not only one, preset designer(s), meaning they will reflect these few people design and general preferences in term of music, sound design aso.

So that, for synths like Zebra 2, wich have some depth in programming, I would recommend you to try the demo and see what you can do with it. Wich give you a more precise point of view.

As you, for sure, have already noticed, current Zebra2 audio demos sound very different from Marestrup ones. ( And I was both a Gong lover 'tu veux un camembert ?' and I like Mike's demos as well).

Yet I agree Zebra can sound "Noble plastic" "Cold" or "Digital" at first glance. But ... I'm currently pretty sure Zebra can do some "other" things too, and can pretend to be a good candidate in any versatile sonic arsenal.

my 2 cents

LtZ
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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justin3am wrote:What kind of fanboys are you people?! All I see is courteous suggestions and thoughtful anecdotes... wheres the FLAMES?! :evil:
Seriously though...
Resfreshing... :wink: OK, I hate zebra... :-o is this the type of message you lack? :D

Seriously, I don't hate zebra, the only thing I dislike is intolerant discussion. Forums are a great medium to exchange experiences, opinions, etc. and to meet people you otherwise never were able to contact, but I think all the other stuff is of few use it just sucks time and energy :wink:
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...

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TiUser wrote:
justin3am wrote:What kind of fanboys are you people?! All I see is courteous suggestions and thoughtful anecdotes... wheres the FLAMES?! :evil:
Seriously though...
Resfreshing... :wink: OK, I hate zebra... :-o is this the type of message you lack? :D

Seriously, I don't hate zebra, the only thing I dislike is intolerant discussion. Forums are a great medium to exchange experiences, opinions, etc. and to meet people you otherwise never were able to contact, but I think all the other stuff is of few use it just sucks time and energy :wink:
Actually, one of the things that I love very much about U-he in general is the community! There is no bickering that I have seen what so ever. It is a rare case when a developer is also an excellent representative but Urs is an absolutely stand up guy. Further, I wouldn't hesitate to have a beer with any of the other Zebra users I've encountered here (well, I'd have a soda, they can have beer).


Probably my favorite way to test if a synth is going to be "for me" or not is to push it to places it doesn't like being. *If you check out my presets here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213001 and also Jack Solium's here: http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/14/ ... abank1.zip you may find some sounds that you may not like, but you may find some that surprise you :)

*Shameless self promotion

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Lotuzia wrote:
TiUser wrote: ...
Yet I agree Zebra can sound "Noble plastic" "Cold" or "Digital" at first glance. But ... I'm currently pretty sure Zebra can do some "other" things too, and can pretend to be a good candidate in any versatile sonic arsenal.

my 2 cents
LtZ
Well, basically I agree to your statements. But for me I have to weight in some additional aspects.

I know, there are many pros around here, talented sound designers, producers and even software developers. I am an amateur musician with limited resources and mixed background experience in stage tech and amateur bands. My time for the hobby is limited. I am interested in the VSTi technology a lot but there are so many VSTi's around that systematically evaluating them is kind of problematic - and time to play or practise get's simply lost. So the first experiences are relatively important to me. Not to forget, hanging around in forums takes time too, but it's at least not much more than that... :wink:

For that reason flexible products like Zebra look attractive, you only have one but powerful tool and then taking some time to learn more may pay back anytime. On the other hand I have learned over the decades that finally sound decides and not the technical variety and options. So I am currently a bit fenced in between.

Just an example: When I am looking for great organs I would decide for a great simulation like NI B4 which can be operated as an organ and includes all the typical bells and whistles. Even if I don't need all at the first place I am set up well. Samples or possibly synth presets are second choice. Of course I would use those too if I already have them but I wouldn't take the effort to program a organ patch on a synth like zebra myself even it might be technically possible.

With more or less synthetic sounds it's even more difficult to rate the sonic capabilities. Also I understand the elements of synthesis and like tweaking patches I don't think I am able to do something great like Howards patches from scratch myself. So in a way the available patches are an asset to consider too - even I agree that those are always mirrors of the designers/musicians they created them for their purposes.

Just to state some other weird concept of synthetic sounds, I like those that have a kind of "natural" habit in them. That does not mean imitating real instruments but those who sound like naturally supporting and fitting a mix. Maybe this is another ides to see a doctor soon... :wink:

Anyway, it looks like there might arise some more interesting opinions to read about in this thread.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...

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vurt wrote:...nice to meet you, and here of all places :oops:
Hi Vurt :) I remember that name - from Gmedia?

BTW: When I click on your WWW here, I get a "Directory listing denied" message.

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kodama wrote:From what you're saying, you want a less thick more stale sound from the VA components of Z2.

From my few hours playing with the prophet 08 and the VA components of the nord modular g2, that's the basic impression I get.

They were developed to simply produce a sawtooth and a filter, etc...
Thanks for that reply... it is a very good example how everyone seems to use different words for sonic perception and none really hit's the nail a way others perfectly understand how it really sounds :wink:

I would call the prophet 08 character fat, sometimes aggressive but not less thick... :D

The nord modular is a synth I find hardly any word's for, it's really mutable but maybe sounding analogue like a moog is not it's strengths so I might more likely use the attribute digital also it doesn't really nail it either.

Maybe Zebra and G2 have a lot in common...

When I started to learn about synthesis maybe I made that big fault that I also looked at the components. A lot later I realized that for instance all subtractive synths share more or less the same components but indeed sound different... how can that be if they all use the same, sawtooth and filters... :wink:

I realized that there must be more subtle things behind that influence sound perception. I still don't understand a lot and the journey goes on...
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...

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Howard wrote:
TiUser wrote:But maybe there are some who have evaluated similar strange experiences, maybe not with zebra but other synths. Maybe that helps me to find out what is odd in my ears...
I get a similar feeling from Massive and Tera, but certainly not from Z2. The "Arturia sound" also seems to polarize people (BTW: Strangely, I'm fairly neutral about that!)
Thanks for you comments.

I am not sure, are you the "famous" Howard Scarr? :?: Seems to be... :oops:

Maybe perception is build on taste too, no clue... but usually meanings and discussions about this are endless :D

You know I already wrote I like the qualities in Howards Scarrs patches a lot and that seem to be a way in all his patches, regardless which synth he uses...

...I have also the impression that regardless which speaker I use to listen to them and how much that affects the spectrum itself I can always hear the important "idea" behind, like a real instrument, like a stradivari on a medicore transistor radio, it's still magic...

Maybe I am nuts again, but that's how I get it...
Last edited by TiUser on Sun May 18, 2008 11:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...

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Buy Zebra already. It's f**king brilliant, period. It's not like it's getting mixed reviews, like other major players in the field. It's so versatile, too. Plus you get probably one of the best supports around. I really think you can get it to sound just like you want if you learn how to use it.

You could have made great music with it in the time it took this thread to get this far ;)

Believe you me, if you end up really not finding a use for it (which i doubt) you'll have no difficulty selling your license.

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vurt wrote::o
ive only just put two and two together :oops:
i didnt realise you were that howard, gong have been one of my fave bands since birth :lol:
nice to meet you, and here of all places :oops:
lol - took you long enough :)

Didn't all the Moonweed patches Howard has done for nearly every synth he's worked on (except Zebra :() give enough clues?
Last edited by aMUSEd on Sun May 18, 2008 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TiUser wrote:You know I already wrote I like the qualities in Howards Scarrs patches a lot and that seem to be a way in all his patches, regardless which synth he uses...
Note: I can't get what I'd call a good sound out of most synths. There are only a few I really like.

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