Howard - Any Chance of a Few "Waldorf Clowns?"

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I thought I would direct this to you, Howard, since you've done programming for Waldorf synths in the past and have done such a fine job with your Virus and Little Phatty emulations in the current Zebra presets. I was just wondering if you've ever messed with Waldorf emulations on Zebra 2?

I recently picked up a Blofeld and Micro-Q and definitely dig their rather idiosyncratic, hard-to-describe sound (nice job on the Q patches you did that are reproduced in the Blofeld, by the way - I grinned every time I brought up a patch with "HS" at the end). Waldorf's digital filters seem to have their own personality, and the Waldorfs also seem good at putting a very hard, almost metallic spike on the attack with fast envelope times that I haven't found as easy to achieve with my VST synths.

Granted, there's nothing wrong with having a collection of instruments and not expecting Zebra to cover everything under the sun, but even just as an interesting exercise, I'd be intrigued to see how close you could get to a handful of the Q sounds ("Very Compleqs," "Rain After Sun" and some of the more punchy and standout bass sounds like "Norebass#2" come to mind, but of course anything that struck your fancy would be interesting).

Clearly you're a very busy man these days, but I just thought I'd throw it out there as a potentially fun diversion during a slower period. I honestly don't know how difficult it would be to simulate Waldorf's filter response and other characteristics within Zebra's architecture, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if you nailed it like you did the Virus...I love the sound of the Waldorfs, but they've also reminded me of how much less convenient it is to deal with external hardware. :wink:
http://www.davidvector.com
New album, Chasing Fire, out now on Amazon, iTunes, etc.
Bandcamp: https://davidvector.bandcamp.com/releases

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not sure if they're waldorfs though

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Well, if that was Mr. Franke, he would've had to have gone on a massive eating binge and put on about 100 pounds since Frankfurt Messe... :lol:
http://www.davidvector.com
New album, Chasing Fire, out now on Amazon, iTunes, etc.
Bandcamp: https://davidvector.bandcamp.com/releases

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Hi Vectorman

It might seem strange, but I was never a huge fan of the digital Waldorf synths, and since using Z2, I feel even less comfortable with them (in comparison). They were fairly difficult to program, mainly because of the parameter ranges/values. Plus I thought Waldorf effect sections truly sucked (sorry guys, if you're reading this!). As for the Blofeld: a great little machine if you like its basic sound (which is certainly "ÜberWaldorf"), and it looks like a jewel - Axel Hartmann always delivers! Me: I tried to like the Blo sound, but failed.

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Thanks for the response, Howard. I noticed that your programming for them dated back several years, so I did wonder if perhaps your interest in their synthesizers had been a passing thing that had fallen by the wayside.

Their effects sections do indeed suck...a conclusion I reached within about five minutes of browsing factory patches (hence I mostly record them dry and apply better-sounding VST-based effects). I'm at a loss to put into words exactly what it is I like about their sound, but they do seem rather polarizing - people seem to either love that sound or hate it.

I do think I'll eventually spend some time getting more into building wavetables and getting a better handle on using Z2's filters creatively, the areas where whatever elusive "it" that I seem to like in the Waldorfs largely lies. I guess there's nothing to say I can't just keep a Waldorf box or two around to provide that particular "color," though. Because Zebra is so much more flexible and wide-ranging sonically than many other synthesizers, some (including me) can perhaps have a tendency to expect it to do everything and render all our other synths redundant, which isn't really fair or reasonable to ask of any instrument.
http://www.davidvector.com
New album, Chasing Fire, out now on Amazon, iTunes, etc.
Bandcamp: https://davidvector.bandcamp.com/releases

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ah, now i feel like i did the right thing.

i had a blofeld on order, but i canceled it when i came across a 3-day-used virusTI desktop for the about same price as the blofeld. i kinda have a love/hate thing with virii, and now i am able to retired my c/indigo2.

my default template contains 9 zebras and 7 virus. i did that split on purpose [instead of 8/8] because zebra rules the earth and beyond. zebra has retired every other software instrument i have, as well as an embarrassing amount of hardware.

i still like using a virus, if not simply for keeping 16 zebras out of my CPU (had to leave some headroom for MFM and the occasional FSVA). and of course, i still very much love my little evolver - what a neat little machine.

i never thought it would happen, but my gear lust has passed. i am HAPPY with my studio. and i have to thank urs for that. the best 200 bucks i have EVER spent. and then a little extra for howard, beej, mkastrup, etc for the absolutely killer patches and all the wonderful freebies.

thanks.

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There are two things the blofeld has that z2 doesn't (yet):
- all those filter drive types (if I have one small crit of z2 is that it's quite difficult to make things dirty. Using distortion plugins doesn't help because they're not polyphonic and occur after the filters anyway).
- wavetable fm: the mw xt and q's fm of wavetables is fantastic sounding.

Also, the waldorfs are glitchy in a way that few other synths seem to be. I've been meaning to sell my q rack for years, but while I've replaced it for about 90% of its sonic range, the remaining 10% means that somehow it has survived various purges. z2 seems to be too well programmed to throw up these glitches :)

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understood. what really got me interested in the blofeld actually was (well, the form factor i really like, but) a friend has a microwaveXT that i really enjoy messing around with. i figured, since the blofeld is kinda billed as AllWaldorfsInOne, that it would give me the entire collection. who knows, if i find one for a great price i will probably pick it up. really, i need to get my grubby hands on one to play with first i guess.

i respect the need for dirt, but i've been really into the very 'classic' sounds lately. my bandmates tell me to "knock off that vangelis shit" :P but i've been quite happy with the amount of dirt i can get from the zebra. as far as glitchyness, i do find that hard to get from *any* software, let alone HW emulations of other classic hardware. for example, i just picked up that boss re-20 chorus echo pedal. it's quite fun, but nothing like my actual RE-301. i mean, when you KICK it, it makes an incredibly wonderful noise! now that's glitch hahaha!

i hope i didn't sound like i was putting the blofeld down, or you for that matter. like i say, i finally found my happy place. i guess one of the many special things about zebra is you never know what's gonna end up in there. the XMF for example was a totally unexpected and seriously fun surprise. i'm sure new filter types are coming - i suggest you ask for them... i did that for midi prog change, and look what happened!

good luck and happy oscillating

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oh - meant to add that i think wavetable FM would be delicious in zebra... perhaps i will request that myself!

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amoeba wrote:oh - meant to add that i think wavetable FM would be delicious in zebra... perhaps i will request that myself!
We need more processing power for proper FM :cry:

However, the "more OSC" tabs have some surplus space and sample-based synthesis will eventually happen as well. Maybe in 2010 or so...

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Urs wrote:Maybe in 2010 or so...
that's fine by me. as long as it's before 2012... i want some time to play with it before the world ends!

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Urs wrote:We need more processing power for proper FM :cry:
This is exactly what I mean - you're too competent and insist on doing things properly :) Since the dsp in the mw2 was undoubtedly crappy by current standards, the waldorf guys just approximated it, but it sounds fantastic. And because it's an approximation, it's full of strange glitches when you push it too hard. This is actually my biggest reservation about the blofeld - that they probably fixed this.

My absolute favourite waldorf effects, though, are the quality parameters in the mw2/xt: aliasing and timequant (this is apparently replicated in the blofeld via the brilliance parameter) - and the two different types of clipping (saturate and overflow). I would love to see z2 embrace it's digital side in this way.

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suthnear wrote:(if I have one small crit of z2 is that it's quite difficult to make things dirty. Using distortion plugins doesn't help because they're not polyphonic and occur after the filters anyway).
Z2's Shaper after the Filter, experiment.

[Edit:] Also applies to the post immediately above, but placed before the filter :wink:

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Howard wrote:Z2's Shaper
I've tried the shapers before and after filters but they didn't really do it for me. I find them a bit too polite, tbh, especially the crusher. The crusher should really mangle those bits.

Actually, what would really be cool (well, for me anyway) would be osc fx that work at the data level rather than the harmonic - i.e. shifting/reflecting/inverting/etc the bits in the stream around...

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suthnear wrote: Actually, what would really be cool (well, for me anyway) would be osc fx that work at the data level rather than the harmonic - i.e. shifting/reflecting/inverting/etc the bits in the stream around...
That sounds like it would create presets that sound radically different at different sample rates, bit rates, and possibly even buffer sizes.

If there was a way to make properly controlled glitching that would retain it's character when changing project settings, then it would be a good idea... But I know I change buffer size in projects a lot (start really, really, really small, raise it back up when mixing as I add way too many compressors in...)

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