Very substantial new Reaper version 2.4

[koolkeys]

Some people just don't appreciate good old obsequious behaviour. Brent appears to be one of'em.

I don't even know what obsequious means!

Brent

[LawrenceF]

Highly entertaining.

I like Reaper also - a whole lot, I bought a license - and I'm also a regular critic. Perhaps one of the biggest critics among the regular forum members. I think people should just let others (non-users whatever) state their criticisms and just let it be. Some people will love it and some will hate it... and some will do both. I love the audio handling and hate the midi.

There is so much misinformation and assumption flying around it's just silly. Reaper is a great audio recorder mixer... it performs very well and it can do professional work. Reaper is not yet on par *as a professional audio/midi workstation package* with the likes of Logic, Samp, Cubase, Sonar etc, etc. Some people that need more comprehensive midi will come away unimpressed by that side of it.

So what? Let it be? Walk away? It will be one day, just not today.

Someone says it can do whatever an audio editor can do without even really understanding what audio editors really do or why people buy seperate audio editors. People don't by Wavelab to assemble drum tracks. It can't yet even do in some cases what daw sample editors do let alone what a dedicated editor can do. If you have to ask an Auditon user what he can't do in Reaper instead... then you don't know Audition.

Small Example: in a more developed daw host (not a dedicated editor, a daw host) you can draw out digital distortion in a sample editor, not just really short pops and clicks but milleseconds of distortion... draw it right out of the waveform. That's a level of audio editing that Reaper hasn't acheived yet.

Some people point to a multi-cpu test as proof of it outperforming other daws in that regard (which is great as it does in many ways) but also neglect to mention that there are real-world circumstances where it will only use one core and only a fraction of the available cpu. They never mention that part.

Their doing a great job catching up and the dev team are a fantastic group of very talented and very nice guys. I love those guys... and I love the product but it's not yet done for many people. Discounting potential users legitimate complaints doesn't help anyone.

I mean honestly, you can't even export a midi file from the timeline and with more than 16 parts... yet some will tell a Logic user... "I don't miss anything... the midi is fine for me..." As if that means anything to user X. Be realistic here and stop the wars. It's catching up. Let it be.

It's deserving of great praise (timestretching, pitching, track rendering for example whoops Cubase's ass like a crack whore... ), and legitimate criticsm, with the latter being necessary because of the constant comparisons to much more developed products as a whole. You can't claim it does what Logic version 100 does and not expect to hear criticism of what it can't do.

I love it dearly though... very much.

[Tallisman]

Reaper DOES seem to get your goat, though, more than most things - why's that?

you have a goat?
I want a goat!

I want to dress my new goat in a sharp white-on black reaper t-shirt! 'Cause then it would kill any goat out there - without breaking a sweat.

where can I get a goat?


.t

[Hink]

Some people just don't appreciate good old obsequious behaviour. Brent appears to be one of'em.

I don't even know what obsequious means!

Brent

I'll tell you what, if you do some favors for me I'll explain it.

[LawrenceF]

I could've probably just said...

"It's certainly not 'shite' and it's also certainly not the worlds greatest daw... it's somewhere in the middle... on the high-ish side for audio ... and climbing fast."

I think that's a fair and balanced assesment.

[zorn]

indeed, i checked that assertion about midiots also...
- none of the cockos team members used it.
- couldn't find a post where it was used as "midiot(s) which means idiots who need midi to make music"

Schwa uses midi to the best of my knowledge.
He made many nifty JS midi plugins before making before joining the Cockos team.

very boring and pointless addendum because i just hate to be misunderstood :
i meant : none of the cockos team members used the term 'midiot'.
And i couldn't find a post on the Reaper board implying that people using midi were 'idiots that couldn't make music without midi'.

ahhhh feeling better now

[Watto]

Some people just don't appreciate good old obsequious behaviour. Brent appears to be one of'em.

By all mean, Lunch, point some such behaviour out to us, particularly in this thread, if you please.

[Hink]

Some people just don't appreciate good old obsequious behaviour. Brent appears to be one of'em.

By all mean, Lunch, point some such behaviour out to us, particularly in this thread, if you please.

Boy do I hate to use this expression I'm about to use, but you're good people and I know you'll understand I don't mean it negative. Pretty much no matter what the software there is going to be fanboys and reaper is surely one that has it's fair share. So it would be hard for such threads not to have obsequious behavior, and tbh I don't think it should be any other way. It does offset the true haters and extreme doubters and often is taken for what it's worth. Without the gutters there is no middle of the road, without fences there is no middle ground

[Art Evans]

C_note, something about your post got under my skin and perhaps my tone was unnecessarily abrasive. Anyway, I think we basically understand each other's point of view.

As for "midiot" - search for the word "audiot" and you'll find that too! I've described myself as such, I distantly recall.

Hey, why are we talking about it at all in this accidental thread? The whole thing was a mistake! It should have been deleted!

(I hear someone at the back muttering "it still should be!")

[Cordelia]

Some people just don't appreciate good old obsequious behaviour. Brent appears to be one of'em.

I don't even know what obsequious means!

Brent

I'll tell you what, if you do some favors for me I'll explain it.

[Pipelineaudio]

Its funny that so much logical sense is being put forth by Lawrence of all people. If anyone should have a chip against reaper it is him. He takes more shit from me than anyone, and he gives it right back as good as he gets.

The thing to realize here is that Lawrence doesn't just talk irrelevant shit or raise strawman bullshit concerns. He has very definite ideas about exactly how he thinks things should work

But he doesn't stop there. He backs it up with reasons WHY things would be good the way he says.

This is the very strength of reaper. Not this feature or that feature, but the fact that people can be quite at odds with each other and find a way to make things work. The need to hear and understand other viewpoints, and then find a way to make it all work together is what is going on here, and its an incredible thing. A far cry from "it is what it is"

[frog_jr]

Big thanks to Cockos Inc. for this latest update. I'm very excited. And one thing that especially recommends this application is the excellent documentation. Nicholas has written an excellent manual. I wish more applications of all sorts could write such a good manual.

FWIW, I've paid for Audition one and three, Sonar Home, eXT and Reaper, and a handful of VST dll's. For me, Audition and Reaper are an excellent combination.

[koolkeys]

Its funny that so much logical sense is being put forth by Lawrence of all people. If anyone should have a chip against reaper it is him. He takes more shit from me than anyone, and he gives it right back as good as he gets.

The thing to realize here is that Lawrence doesn't just talk irrelevant shit or raise strawman bullshit concerns. He has very definite ideas about exactly how he thinks things should work

But he doesn't stop there. He backs it up with reasons WHY things would be good the way he says.

This is the very strength of reaper. Not this feature or that feature, but the fact that people can be quite at odds with each other and find a way to make things work. The need to hear and understand other viewpoints, and then find a way to make it all work together is what is going on here, and its an incredible thing. A far cry from "it is what it is"

I'm going to start calling you "Strawman". I think it's your favorite word.

Brent

[haydxn]

Highly entertaining.

I like Reaper also - a whole lot, I bought a license - and I'm also a regular critic. Perhaps one of the biggest critics among the regular forum members. I think people should just let others (non-users whatever) state their criticisms and just let it be. Some people will love it and some will hate it... and some will do both. I love the audio handling and hate the midi.

There is so much misinformation and assumption flying around it's just silly. Reaper is a great audio recorder mixer... it performs very well and it can do professional work. Reaper is not yet on par *as a professional audio/midi workstation package* with the likes of Logic, Samp, Cubase, Sonar etc, etc. Some people that need more comprehensive midi will come away unimpressed by that side of it.

So what? Let it be? Walk away? It will be one day, just not today.

Someone says it can do whatever an audio editor can do without even really understanding what audio editors really do or why people buy seperate audio editors. People don't by Wavelab to assemble drum tracks. It can't yet even do in some cases what daw sample editors do let alone what a dedicated editor can do. If you have to ask an Auditon user what he can't do in Reaper instead... then you don't know Audition.

Small Example: in a more developed daw host (not a dedicated editor, a daw host) you can draw out digital distortion in a sample editor, not just really short pops and clicks but milleseconds of distortion... draw it right out of the waveform. That's a level of audio editing that Reaper hasn't acheived yet.

Some people point to a multi-cpu test as proof of it outperforming other daws in that regard (which is great as it does in many ways) but also neglect to mention that there are real-world circumstances where it will only use one core and only a fraction of the available cpu. They never mention that part.

Their doing a great job catching up and the dev team are a fantastic group of very talented and very nice guys. I love those guys... and I love the product but it's not yet done for many people. Discounting potential users legitimate complaints doesn't help anyone.

I mean honestly, you can't even export a midi file from the timeline and with more than 16 parts... yet some will tell a Logic user... "I don't miss anything... the midi is fine for me..." As if that means anything to user X. Be realistic here and stop the wars. It's catching up. Let it be.

It's deserving of great praise (timestretching, pitching, track rendering for example whoops Cubase's ass like a crack whore... ), and legitimate criticsm, with the latter being necessary because of the constant comparisons to much more developed products as a whole. You can't claim it does what Logic version 100 does and not expect to hear criticism of what it can't do.

I love it dearly though... very much.

i've never even used reaper and i'm very pleased to see a post like this. good job

[Bevoss]

Someone says it can do whatever an audio editor can do without even really understanding what audio editors really do or why people buy seperate audio editors.

That comment was meant to be tongue in cheek Lawrence.

Somehow whenever I see yet another post on why Reaper doesn't work for Koolkeys, I get this inexplicable urge to push his buttons...