Very substantial new Reaper version 2.4

[Tallisman]

the one thing that really gets my goat almost to the point of switching back to

Oh man! hang on a second here... you got a goat too?
where'd you get it? I long for a goat, even a little tiny one.
does it look good in a white on black t-shirt?
is it killin' other goats?
is it sweaty?

I love goats.

mooo

.t

[NAS]

I just wish that Reaper users could discuss updates/etc without this apparent need to criticise everything else so harshly and with such boring regularity.

Hmm that seems a little one sided there
I think we can say this whole mess that happens everytime is part of a two way confrontation
It certainly isn't caused by just the Reaper users i'm afraid

If you think that you seriously are kidding yourself

There are a lot of people of late who would have you beleive that because they do this that or the other for whoever that there opinion is important
It isn't

I have said it before and i will say it again
I like what i like and they like what they like
Never the twain shall meet and who gives a shit


NAS

[lockheart]

I just wish that Reaper users could discuss updates/etc without this apparent need to criticise everything else so harshly and with such boring regularity

I'm pretty new to the DAW thing, and it took me about a week of surfing to conclude that the Reaperists were a sort of Travelling Juvenile Delinquent Cult,
Surfing The Forums and Spreading The Word. [I knew and know nothing of the software's quality.] No other fanbase does anything similar. They're like hyperactive squirrels.

[Watto]

Woah, the scrubbing is cool

Is the rending faster as well...? Seemed to race when I just tried it.

[Bob Nova]

Bleh! They've been focusing on audio stuff for two years with virtually no usable midi improvements since import midi was added. (two years ago)
...and still the piano roll (much less the non-existant drum editor) acts weird compared to any mature product.

I have to agree with this.Yes, Reaper has only been around for 2 years, but that hasnt had any effect on it's audio development which is quite speedy.

I love Reaper for audio, I like the whole idea of Reaper,what it is and what it represents, but.....

I cant use it as my main DAW. I'd love to be able to, but the MIDI is just not there and improvements are slow in coming.

Again, I realize that Reaper has only been around for two years. That didnt seem to stop it from rapidly becoming a kick-ass audio app now, did it?

[Cordelia]

I just wish that Reaper users could discuss updates/etc without this apparent need to criticise everything else so harshly and with such boring regularity.

Hmm that seems a little one sided there
I think we can say this whole mess that happens everytime is part of a two way confrontation
It certainly isn't caused by just the Reaper users i'm afraid

I agree, NAS. When the new version of Samplitude came out, Samplitude lovers had fun in their Samplitude thread without folks who don't use Samplitude posting their feelings about Samplitude and crapping on the party.

Reaper threads generate an instant backlash.

Reaper is easy to like. MIDI needs attention, but it's a good buy. An update makes Reaper users happy.

[headquest]

Hmm that seems a little one sided there
I think we can say this whole mess that happens everytime is part of a two way confrontation
It certainly isn't caused by just the Reaper users i'm afraid

When the new version of Samplitude came out, Samplitude lovers had fun in their Samplitude thread without folks who don't use Samplitude posting their feelings about Samplitude and crapping on the party.

Reaper threads generate an instant backlash.

See there's the difference though - Samplitude users do not have the same need to slag off other people and their software. Nor do they sign up on other companies forums to promote Samplitude at the expense of that company's product. Did you see the stuff Reaper users posted on the Cakewalk and Ableton forums last year?

On the Repaer forum they even have a sticky thread called "Reaper discussion on other forums":
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=819

Basically it's a rallying cry to "spread the word". It was started by the Reaper developer himself, encouraging this mentality it seems. I've never seen anything comparable on the Magix, Ableton, etc forums.

Obviously there have also been a couple of infamous threads on the REAPER forum where memebers have specifically slagged off the whole of KVR, which doesn't really help so much either

This is what creates the context where other people can be very defensive when they see Reaper users come here and start criticising other stuff in this way.

So when Art made unfair and unnecessary criticisms of Audition earlier in the thread I commented in order to correct the misinformation and wrong impression he created. You are right that I did not need to do that. But nor did Art need to lay into Adobe. He did, I responded, and there it is

I still think REAPER is superb, as I said. But I also stick with my comment that I wish there would be a day soon when REAPER users do not have this same urge to slag off other stuff as if owning a sequencer is some kind of personal contest

[Tallisman]

See there's the difference though - Samplitude users do not have the same need to slag off other people and their software. Nor do they sign up on other companies forums to promote Samplitude at the expense of that company's product. Did you see the stuff Reaper users posted on the Cakewalk and Ableton forums last year?

this thread:
post 1: reaper user - no slagging.
post 2: Non- reaper user - definite attitude, baiting if not slagging.
post 3: User no slagging voicing update highlights
post 4: reaper user - apologetic... no slagging other hosts or anyone.
post 5: wanna be user disappointed by lack of midi attention...
post 6: user. no slagging... voicing his workaround.
post 7: non-user slinging if not slagging.
post 8: user - no slagging of any other host
post 9: someday user - once midi's improved no slagging.
post 10: non-user no slagging
post 11: user? got a feature implemented. Loves the coding prowess... does not slag but mentions that cockos may entertain notions of overtaking competition. still no slagging.
post 12: user. no slagging but questions the vehement opposition to the stat of reaper's midi based on reaper's age in comparison to som of the competition... no slagging though.
post 13: non-user. no slagging
post 14: non-user... somewhat slaggish.
post 15: non-user. slaggish (unneeded for you maybe)

first 15 posts an no reaper user has slagged any other host... hmmmm

Now I own Cubase SX3 , C4, Nuendo 4, Live 6, Sonar 4, PTLE 6.9. I am a registered member of each of those communities. I was before I made the switch. And I am still there. I have posted in each forum about reaper... posts that began as wow check this out feature requests. Posts that evolved into mere check this out... (no FR) cause I know how some developers seem to cherish user input. I was there when troublemakers made trouble. I never once joined a forum for a product I didn't own to start a daw war and laude reaper. I don't know anyone who did (not saying it didn't happen). But most of the folks I know using reaper made the switch from somewhere... I bet they were a member of that yesterdaw's forum.

I was also there at cubase.net when sonar folk came to try and convert cubendites when C4 came out a buggy mine field. There were some samplitude chaps there too and lots of heated threads. SO reaperites by no means have a monopoly on this behaviour, we just own the deed to the stigma.

As for reaper discussion on other forums... yup its there. it was put into place IIRC to document reaper discussion in other open forums places like KVR, SOS, gearslutz, Homerecording, Audiominds... and by default, thanks to the migration of so many users, cubase.net, the duc, sonar, samp.... blah blah blah.

Really, I don't care if you like Reaper or its users. And as Koolkeys so often reminds us, we are entitled to post our big news in public forums - enthusiastically even. So where exactly are the hoards of reaper users pouncing on this thread in slag-other-hosts mode?. we know not on in the first 15.

greetings
.tallis

[headquest]

Hi Tallis,

The posts I personally responded to are #12 (in which Art made unfair/unnecessary criticism of Adobe's development of Audition... why?) and 17 (in which bevoss claimed that Reaper can do everything that a dedicated editor like Audition can do). I've not done so in a provocative way either, simply a factual correction ... and then this other stuff comes up, as always

Do you seriously have a problem with me responding to/correcting those points in the factual way that I did?

Do you also claim that there aren't posts on the REAPER forum slagging off the KVR forum and all who post here?

As I said, why should these threads end up as personal attacks/etc in this way? I know you are a positive forum poster and have never suggested otherwise (and you have seen evidence that I am too if you remember ) but denying that non-Reaper users have any reason to be somewhat defensive is ... well, denial

[aMUSEd]

I just wish that Reaper users could discuss updates/etc without this apparent need to criticise everything else so harshly and with such boring regularity.

Hmm that seems a little one sided there
I think we can say this whole mess that happens everytime is part of a two way confrontation
It certainly isn't caused by just the Reaper users i'm afraid

I agree, NAS. When the new version of Samplitude came out, Samplitude lovers had fun in their Samplitude thread without folks who don't use Samplitude posting their feelings about Samplitude and crapping on the party.

Reaper threads generate an instant backlash.

Exactly - I've been pissed off about this for a while. It's some sort of new blood sport I think this knee jerk uncalled for response to legitimate Reaper threads.

[aMUSEd]

On the Repaer forum they even have a sticky thread called "Reaper discussion on other forums":
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=819

Basically it's a rallying cry to "spread the word". It was started by the Reaper developer himself, encouraging this mentality it seems. I've never seen anything comparable on the Magix, Ableton, etc forums.

Oh god this nonsense comes up again and again. It's just a collection of links to discussion of Reaper in other forums - a new app and one promoted almost entirely by word of mouth and on the net (as it was at that time) needs to be aware of where people are spreading that word and the buzz about the app. It's just a 6 page long collection of links - there is no encouragement of any particular "mentality" and this whole mythology about Reaper users going on other forums and dissing them is pretty bogus - I read those threads on Cakewalk some people were going on about for example and they were started by a complete noob getting a bit over excited, not a regular Reaper user. Even the purported criticisms of other products (i.e. Audition) made in this thread are a factual response to questions asked about the state of midi development and not at all "dissing" anything.

[headquest]

It's just a collection of links to discussion of Reaper in other forums - a new app and one promoted almost entirely by word of mouth and on the net (as it was at that time) needs to be aware of where people are spreading that word and the buzz about the app.

THat's fine for general forums such as this one, but I would at least question the etiquette of promoting one company's product on another conpany's user forum.

... this whole mythology about Reaper users going on other forums and dissing them is pretty bogus - I read those threads on Cakewalk some people were going on about for example and they were started by a complete noob getting a bit over excited, not a regular Reaper user.

I think when it turned into a direct personal attack on one of the top Cakewalk developers it was locked and he was banned. As a decent, responsible Reaper user reading that thread, were you embarassed? Did you post some common sense there yourself?

All I'm saying is that having read stuff like that (and worse on the Ableton forum - IIRC the only ever example where the company actually stepped in to moderate) it creates a bad impression. I think a lot of Reaper users would very much agree with me about that too

Even the purported criticisms of other products (i.e. Audition) made in this thread are a factual response to questions asked about the state of midi development and not at all "dissing" anything.

Actually his comments were factually incorrect, which is why I responded to them. Audition's MIDI is one of a number of huge developments made by the team in the last two years. I believe there are just three developers, by the way, and they are also responsible for SoundBooth. And it's also untrue to claim they have not updated v3 since release, as they have released a Vista patch and a patch for Audition's effects.

Surely no harm in correcting such false statements and sharing knowledge? Does that somehow make me a h8r?

I think that is the sort of paranoia that can fuel these arguments.

[aMUSEd]

It's just a collection of links to discussion of Reaper in other forums - a new app and one promoted almost entirely by word of mouth and on the net (as it was at that time) needs to be aware of where people are spreading that word and the buzz about the app.

THat's fine for general forums such as this one, but I would at least question the etiquette of promoting one company's product on another conpany's user forum.

... this whole mythology about Reaper users going on other forums and dissing them is pretty bogus - I read those threads on Cakewalk some people were going on about for example and they were started by a complete noob getting a bit over excited, not a regular Reaper user.

I think when it turned into a direct personal attack on one of the top Cakewalk developers it was locked and he was banned. As a decent, responsible Reaper user reading that thread, were you embarassed? Did you post some common sense there yourself?

All I'm saying is that having read stuff like that (and worse on the Ableton forum - IIRC the only ever example where the company actually stepped in to moderate) it creates a bad impression. I think a lot of Reaper users would very much agree with me about that too

Even the purported criticisms of other products (i.e. Audition) made in this thread are a factual response to questions asked about the state of midi development and not at all "dissing" anything.

Actually his comments were factually incorrect, which is why I responded to them. Audition's MIDI is one of a number of huge developments made by the team in the last two years. I believe there are just three developers, by the way, and they are also responsible for SoundBooth. And it's also untrue to claim they have not updated v3 since release, as they have released a Vista patch and a patch for Audition's effects.

Surely no harm in correcting such false statements and sharing knowledge? Does that somehow make me a h8r?

I think that is the sort of paranoia that can fuel these arguments.

No harm in correcting stuff that may have been slightly incorrect factually but making out it was some sort of "typical" Reaperite attack on another app is just adding fuel to the flames and quite unjust.

I wasn't a Reaper user till well after the Cakewalk thing but I did comment at the time on how things were being taken out of context - it was just some overexcited newbie and no I see no reason for anyone from Reaper to have "officially" stepped in but just for people to have a sense of proportion and common sense which seems lacking at times in these threads.

[headquest]

No harm in correcting stuff that may have been slightly incorrect factually but making out it was some sort of "typical" Reaperite attack on another app is just adding fuel to the flames and quite unjust.

That's a fair point. I did state clearly before that everything else Art has said is excellent, too, and I know he is not a "disser"

[Cordelia]

I think when it turned into a direct personal attack on one of the top Cakewalk developers it was locked and he was banned. As a decent, responsible Reaper user reading that thread, were you embarassed?

Why would any decent, responsible Reaper user be embarrassed by someone else behaving badly, no matter what host he/she uses? Not my problem.

I just want to read about what other Reaper users think about the update, which features were implemented, how the new features are working, and if there are any bugs.