Very substantial new Reaper version 2.4

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Cordelia wrote:
Why would any decent, responsible Reaper user be embarrassed by someone else behaving badly, no matter what host he/she uses? Not my problem.

I just want to read about what other Reaper users think about the update, which features were implemented, how the new features are working, and if there are any bugs.
Agreed.

It's a good update in a development cycle that has been breathtaking in its rapidity, and quality of implementation. We all have our favourites that we'd like to see in that cycle, but i would find it hard to doubt that the tools being built for us to make music with are useful.

Also worth noting here that other threads in this forum and beyond are replete with train crashes as one group of users enthusiastic about the perceived wisdom of their purchasing acumen, seek to dominate another group. I've read just as many somewhat enthusiastically phrased posts about other hosts and products as i have from Reaper users, so i think the drive to portray Reaper users as somehow 'more tribal', is factually incorrect. A fairly modest search sheds light on this as ample evidence.

And i've seen some pretty belligerent posts in other fora from visitors wanting to laud the attributes of their own app, with Cakewalk in Steinberg, and vice versa, as examples of a wider behavioural pattern.

Reaper has turned out to be a good choice for many, and i can't see why those particular users can't post with updates, discussion, and even comparison, often based on experience, related to their own desired workflow, without what has become a predictable, somewhat tribal response from others whose intent seems to be keeping their own choice of app at the 'top of the hill.'

Headquest, i think you posted a comment about reasonable Reaper users being embarrassed. I would disagree with you here, and find it far more likely that reasonably minded Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, etc, users would be embarrassed at what seems to be a clumsy, oafish,relentless, and often aggressively personal campaign, the moment the word "Reaper" is even mentioned.
As for "horrible Reaper users last year" as a means of perpetuating an ongoing myth of something less intelligent than 'other' users, i find that a little amusing, and again, a modest search will reveal that every audio app company has their fair share of 'enthusiasts' eager to represent their particular app as best they think they can.

So maybe as a forum community we can, collectively, draw a line somewhere here, and instead of embracing the literary sword and cudgel, and sly deceit and clumsily hidden personal attacks based on often erroneously perceived slights of old, as a default means of compelled response, share, in good spirits, discussion of the virtues of workflow methods, attributes we use and would like to see, and the occasional, mutually sensible, comparison without everything degenerating into a extinction level event.

I for one enjoy the highly adaptable interface of Reaper related to Keystrokes, as i find them faster and more efficient than using the mouse. There are new actions to complement my particular workflow even further.

What's your sensible and objective view on this?


Alex.
Last edited by Alex Stone on Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I'm not "dissing Audition". I'm trying to make what I think is a perfectly reasonable point using Audition as an example that I happen to be familiar with.

Look at is this way. Reaper was barely off the starting blocks at version 0.45 (you can download it from http://reaper.fm/files/0.x/reaper045-install.exe ) on 16th January 2006 which is - I think - about the time that work began on the upgrade of Audition 2.0 to Audition 3.0, which was finally released on or about 6th November 2007 and which has not been significantly updated since. Reaper came from virtually scratch to at least equal if not exceed the overall state of Audition's multitrack development (yes, that's subjective) in that same timescale (to date), and its state of midi development considerably exceeds that of Audition, also over that same timescale, and I don't see that consideration of Adobe's design objectives changes the facts.

Now when the subject of Audition occasionally comes up here, is the discussion immediately sidetracked by comments of an abrasive nature about the slow pace of its midi and multitrack development and ponderous release cycle? I don't recall seeing that happen.

Yet when I make a factual and balanced report to members here that there have been some significant upgrades to Reaper, several of which I conceded were catch-ups, but still of interest to those who were waiting on those features to be added, at once we get sidetracked by thread-hijacking and name-calling comments about its supposed slow development of the midi side, its workflow and gui, instead of having a sensible discussion about what I actually posted. Isn't that a tad unfair? Isn't it more than likely to get up the nose of those interested in the program, and doesn't that kind of thing make it very hard to have a sober and rational discussion of Reaper here?

I have no issue with anyone saying "I wish they would add this or that feature" or "Personally I can't abide its gui or workflow" but why do the comments have to be so provocative and vituperative? It's a computer program for heaven's sake, it's not something about to undermine the moral values of the western world!

Let's take the politics out of future Reaper discussions and then all that would be left would probably go nicely on a single KvR page, which would save us all a lot of time and angst.

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sockofgold wrote:Wow, lets take it easy on the "New Reaper version" posts. Not everyone loves Reaper as much as we do...

Hmmm, on the front page of the hosts section at the time of writing this,there are, related to subject:

Others (non app related questions) - 5
Usine -2
Sonar - 1
Audition - 2
FL Studio - 1
Tracktion - 1
KorgDS10 - 1
Finale - 1
Sony Acid Pro 7 - 1
Ableton Live - 2
Reason - 1
Logic - 1
Garageband - 1
Reaper - 2
Cubase - 6


I'm not sure i understand your dismay.

Alex.

:)
Last edited by Alex Stone on Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alex Stone wrote:
sockofgold wrote:Wow, lets take it easy on the "New Reaper version" posts. Not everyone loves Reaper as much as we do...
I'm not sure i understand your dismay.

Alex.
Alex, I'm sure that was a cheeky reference to the doubled-up threads here (which ironically, the second one by Art has become the dominant one).

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Bevoss wrote:
Alex Stone wrote:
sockofgold wrote:Wow, lets take it easy on the "New Reaper version" posts. Not everyone loves Reaper as much as we do...
I'm not sure i understand your dismay.

Alex.
Alex, I'm sure that was a cheeky reference to the doubled-up threads here (which ironically, the second one by Art has become the dominant one).
Bevoss, it was an attempt at light heartedness on my part...

:)

Alex.

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Alex Stone wrote:Headquest, i think you posted a comment about reasonable Reaper users being embarrassed. I would disagree with you here, and find it far more likely that reasonably minded Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, etc, users would be embarrassed at what seems to be a clumsy, oafish,relentless, and often aggressively personal campaign, the moment the word "Reaper" is even mentioned.
By whom exactly :?: You won't find anything like that in my posts here, which are uniformly positive about Reaper :shrug:

I do displike the rants that people get into over hosts, and that is the point I made which started this element of the discussion I believe. I agree that such rants happen often and come from users of a variety of programmes, not only Reaper. I do also think though that in the case of Reaper the arguments are usually more passionate, and often more personal. I guess that is because of the context/history, as you say.

Your comment seems to underline that actually. Why single out me here? - is it because of something I wrote 2 years ago?

On the other hand:
bevoss wrote:Somehow whenever I see yet another post on why Reaper doesn't work for Koolkeys, I get this inexplicable urge to push his buttons...
See, that's the sort of trolling that I think is just unnecessary, personal and deliberately provocative :shrug:

And no, "bevoss" is not somebody that can be dismissed as a "noob"; this is a direct example taken from this very thread which illustrates the main point of concern here :wink:
I for one enjoy the highly adaptable interface of Reaper related to Keystrokes, as i find them faster and more efficient than using the mouse. There are new actions to complement my particular workflow even further.

What's your sensible and objective view on this?
Mine? I love using keystrokes, it has been my main way of doing stuff for several years. So I think it's a great addition to any sequencer.

In terms of Reaper 2.4, unfortunately when I installed it yesterday it wouldn't open - I had an error message saying it was corrupted. So I will need to download a fresh copy or else wait for the next update in a few days time.

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headquest wrote:
Alex Stone wrote:Headquest, i think you posted a comment about reasonable Reaper users being embarrassed. I would disagree with you here, and find it far more likely that reasonably minded Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, etc, users would be embarrassed at what seems to be a clumsy, oafish,relentless, and often aggressively personal campaign, the moment the word "Reaper" is even mentioned.
By whom exactly :?: You won't find anything like that in my posts here, which are uniformly positive about Reaper :shrug:

I do displike the rants that people get into over hosts, and that is the point I made which started this element of the discussion I believe. I agree that such rants happen often and come from users of a variety of programmes, not only Reaper. I do also think though that in the case of Reaper the arguments are usually more passionate, and often more personal. I guess that is because of the context/history, as you say.

Your comment seems to underline that actually. Why single out me here? - is it because of something I wrote 2 years ago?

On the other hand:
bevoss wrote:Somehow whenever I see yet another post on why Reaper doesn't work for Koolkeys, I get this inexplicable urge to push his buttons...
See, that's the sort of trolling that I think is just unnecessary, personal and deliberately provocative :shrug:

And no, "bevoss" is not somebody that can be dismissed as a "noob"; this is a direct example taken from this very thread which illustrates the main point of concern here :wink:
I for one enjoy the highly adaptable interface of Reaper related to Keystrokes, as i find them faster and more efficient than using the mouse. There are new actions to complement my particular workflow even further.

What's your sensible and objective view on this?
Mine? I love using keystrokes, it has been my main way of doing stuff for several years. So I think it's a great addition to any sequencer.

In terms of Reaper 2.4, unfortunately when I installed it yesterday it wouldn't open - I had an error message saying it was corrupted. So I will need to download a fresh copy or else wait for the next update in a few days time.
Somewhat ironic that you've written this, as Bevoss is one of the undisputed Dark Lords of macro magic in the Reaper paradigm, and a willing soul to help others. So for chaps like you and I, who enjoy the keystroke dominant workflow, he is definitely a valuable contributor to our particular peer group.

But in the spirit of going forward here, i'm sorry to hear your install hasn't gone to plan.
I'd try and help, but i'm using Reaper in Wine in Linux, and it installed without complaint, so i'm not sure what i could offer.
Maybe posting some details with a backtrace, if possible, in the Reaper forum would yield a positive outcome.

Alex.

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Art Evans wrote:I'm not "dissing Audition". I'm trying to make what I think is a perfectly reasonable point using Audition as an example that I happen to be familiar with.
I know, and we all do the same. It is perfectly fine to do. As I said before, you have made a lot of excellent points in this thread :wink:

The only reason I commented at all was to add some balance where I felt you were left an inaccurate impression. Audition's MIDI sucks, agreed, but their development of other audio stuff has been amazing in the last couple of years (I believe that you stopped being into Audition at around that time, hence you may not realise this.).

As I said, I think this is a team of three (possibly two now, as Hart moved on) who have also built SoundBooth from scratch during that period, and put out two patches for Audition 3, quite apart from the huge improvements to the wave editing view in AA3. I wouldn't want others reading the thread to come away with an unfairly critical view of Audition.

Unfortunately, after you raised the Audition point, bevoss set out to provoke koolkeys with his audio editors "point" as bait. Business as usual there I'm afraid, and it gets truly tiresome.

Anyways, peace 8)

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Alex Stone wrote: Somewhat ironic that you've written this, as Bevoss is one of the undisputed Dark Lords of macro magic in the Reaper paradigm, and a willing soul to help others. So for chaps like you and I, who enjoy the keystroke dominant workflow, he is definitely a valuable contributor to our particular peer group.
So it's alright for him to bait KVR members for a bit of fun in his spare time? Sorry, don't wish to be rude, but that doesn't work for me :wink:
But in the spirit of going forward here, i'm sorry to hear your install hasn't gone to plan.
I'd try and help, but i'm using Reaper in Wine in Linux, and it installed without complaint, so i'm not sure what i could offer.
Maybe posting some details with a backtrace, if possible, in the Reaper forum would yield a positive outcome.

Alex.
Thanks for that - all offers of help appreciated :cool:

I will have another go at the reinstall here (Win XP SP2, fairly typical PC setup). If I still get problems I'm sure there will be a new version in a few days. I last tried v2 when it first came out, so I am keen to see how it has evolved over the last six months or so :)

Cheers.

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headquest wrote:
Alex Stone wrote: Somewhat ironic that you've written this, as Bevoss is one of the undisputed Dark Lords of macro magic in the Reaper paradigm, and a willing soul to help others. So for chaps like you and I, who enjoy the keystroke dominant workflow, he is definitely a valuable contributor to our particular peer group.
So it's alright for him to bait KVR members for a bit of fun in his spare time? Sorry, don't wish to be rude, but that doesn't work for me :wink:
But in the spirit of going forward here, i'm sorry to hear your install hasn't gone to plan.
I'd try and help, but i'm using Reaper in Wine in Linux, and it installed without complaint, so i'm not sure what i could offer.
Maybe posting some details with a backtrace, if possible, in the Reaper forum would yield a positive outcome.

Alex.
Thanks for that - all offers of help appreciated :cool:

I will have another go at the reinstall here (Win XP SP2, fairly typical PC setup). If I still get problems I'm sure there will be a new version in a few days. I last tried v2 when it first came out, so I am keen to see how it has evolved over the last six months or so :)

Cheers.

I think the relationship between KK and Bevoss as adults is for them to sort out or not as they wish, not I or anyone else to be indignant on their behalf. (imho)


Once you have Reaper installed ok, it may be worth checking out the new Scrub/Jog feature. It's very tight and performs well (in my experience), and for us keystrokers, there is an action available to map it to midi cc. I have mine mapped to the modwheel on my second midi keyboard, and it works extremely well, as good or better than my old grundig sync reel to reel, or the Fairlight. (Now sadly dead and gone.)
As is now a familiar occurence in the Reaper setup, there are several parameters to fine tune with. With some tweaking and testing (typical of any new feature in any host), it's proved to be an excellent implementation of an important feature.

Well worth the effort of getting it to the user's desired 'sweet spot'.



Alex.

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Cordelia wrote:
I just want to read about what other Reaper users think about the update, which features were implemented, how the new features are working, and if there are any bugs.
In fact what Cordelia wrote is the essence why it is nice that news about Reaper are posted here :)

Most of the stuff people like Art, Bevoss, Alex Stone, amused, Cordelia or myself and others write here just exists because of the reaction of some people. As soon as Reaper is even mentioned, it starts to sound, like I already mentioned somewhere in the deep hidden past on page, as if we started a thread about "my dad is better than yours, and I can piss in the Moskwa better than you and make the ice melt in January!

Without those slightly aggressive prejudices the thread would just contain mostly what is new, and we could talk about what we find good or bad or what we need for our ways of making music.

Maybe the old "they are religious"-prejudice is what drives people? No, Reaper is not about religion, it's just a very good host for many, and after reading through 9 pages I can't see why this should be a problem.

By the way, yesterday I tried to persuade some guys to name their band after a new feature in 2.4: optimized heap allocation granuarity. Their fans don't speak english, so if they'll use it I wonder what they'd think the name would mean. Back to the new features :D

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headquest wrote:
bevoss wrote:Somehow whenever I see yet another post on why Reaper doesn't work for Koolkeys, I get this inexplicable urge to push his buttons...
See, that's the sort of trolling that I think is just unnecessary, personal and deliberately provocative :shrug:

Yeah right, I'm a troll...I'm in a Reaper related thread, here to discuss a Reaper update. Maybe help some noob if I can.

KK posts in EVERY Reaper thread...almost always 'REAPER doesn't work for/appeal to me'...probably the highest post count of anyone here regarding Reaper. Is that contributing? More like a serial pest to me, and it's getting old.

And you yourself are more concerned with supposed grievances and exaggerated attacks then discussing where Reaper is at now.

I should stick to my motto...'Never reply to trolls, it only encourages the bastards!'

Usually I resist though... I didn't in this thread, my bad...so here I'll stop.

Food for thought...am I in your Sonar/Live thread? No?? I guess I really suck at trolling... :)

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@ Bevoss:

:roll:

I don't mind where you post, or what. Nor should you mind where I post (and I read this thread because I am still interested in Reaper, obviously).

What I do mind is that you posted something deliberately untrue/silly to stir up an argument here. You admitted it yourself. :shrug:

As for koolkeys, as a writer of course he is interested in a number of programmes. But the way a small band of you childishly gang up on him in these situations gets very old imho. Why not just answer his questions, and then leave him be. There's really no need to provoke arguments here.

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Moving on.....

For Reaper users in Wine/Linux, there's an even smoother feel to the programme running overall. Personally, i've had a good run with Reaper in this environment, but i know others have found the interface a little slow at redrawing on occasion. (And this is for other win apps in Wine too.)

The new Wine release, 1.0, seems to have fixed this challenge, and Reaper responds as quickly as other apps in my native linux setup. The connection for audio and midi through Wine from JACK/ALSA to Reaper is no longer as....cautious as it used to be. 2.4 is snappier (imho) and starts, given the path through Wine to the Jack server, much quicker than before. With the new Jack server update, 0.112, there's been a fresh upgrade all round.
So the combination of a new Reaper update, new Jack upgrade, and a new Wine release, seems to be a productive one, and bodes well for Reaper users wishing to run this app in Wine/Linux.


Alex.

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Bob Nova wrote:Yes, Reaper has only been around for 2 years, but that hasnt had any effect on it's audio development which is quite speedy.

I love Reaper for audio, I like the whole idea of Reaper,what it is and what it represents, but.....
...
Again, I realize that Reaper has only been around for two years. That didnt seem to stop it from rapidly becoming a kick-ass audio app now, did it?
Exactly. That's why I'm using Reaper as my main DAW these days and it simply rocks on the audio side. Better in many ways than Nuendo2 which I used for 5 years.
We'll see if Reaper will get a big midi improvement in the near future or if I would have to reinstall Nuendo or look for a midi-heavy host like Temper to get those midi needs met in the future.

Shogger

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