Very substantial new Reaper version 2.4

[Tallisman]

Hi Tallis,

The posts I personally responded to are #12 (in which Art made unfair/unnecessary criticism of Adobe's development of Audition... why?) and 17 (in which bevoss claimed that Reaper can do everything that a dedicated editor like Audition can do). I've not done so in a provocative way either, simply a factual correction ... and then this other stuff comes up, as always

You mean this:

And let's face it, Adobe with all their resources have only just started adding midi recording and editing to Audition, which (via Cool Edit) goes back to the ark. It's midi implementation is generally held to be very basic - not nearly as fully featured as midi in Reaper - but I believe it has been developed over the same timescale as Reaper. And hasn't been updated since release. So the tiny Cockos team have achieved way more than the much more numerous Adobe one, it would seem.

Ok... that is hardly a slag, in my opinion, even when I am at my most sensitive. It was a comparison, if anything. Folks are always (to borrow a your term again) slagging Cockos of substandard midi (which is, IMHO a fallacy predicated on laziness - at least it was for me). Art merely pointed out that Audition does not receive the hate that Reaper receives, for the state of its midi development. It just seems that where Cockos has been spreading the love over midi and audio features, Audition has emphasized killer audio editing. But that is not the point. The point is that Art's post while, perhaps not entirely factually accurate was by no means a slag in terms of tone and content.

Do you seriously have a problem with me responding to/correcting those points in the factual way that I did?

Not at all that would be unreasonable. And that is not what I am questioning. I am simply stating that you claim that hoards of Reaperites wait in shallows for a chance to slag of other hosts at the drop of a dime is crap. In fact, judging by the first 15 posts the reverse is also true. But shit always seems to hit the fan.

Do you also claim that there aren't posts on the REAPER forum slagging off the KVR forum and all who post here?

Oh yeah that exists, but quite frankly, and no offense intended, there are some bitchy buggers in these here parts, some real jerks in fact. Not everyone, maybe not even a healthy minority, but enough to taint the perception of this forum in the minds and hearts of a good many folks (and this is seen no not just Reaper-related threads). The same can be said of just about any forum I frequent, so what? Isn't that half the fun of web-based anonymity? The weird thing is how every Reaper post here turns that way. And the last several times, it was not started by a reaper user. But every time a reaper user mentions another host or application it seems to be considered a... a... hmmm... a slag.

As I said, why should these threads end up as personal attacks/etc in this way? I know you are a positive forum poster and have never suggested otherwise (and you have seen evidence that I am too if you remember ) but denying that non-Reaper users have any reason to be somewhat defensive is ... well, denial

Well I thank you and I try to keep it civil. I try to keep it well balanced and open minded as most people do, you included. I think that many non-Reaper users have good reasons to be defensive. I just don't think that reason is only reaper users. I was so pissed off by the way my Yesterdaw treated it's user base that I wrote a song about it. Sneaky droping of important elements and no mention of it in any official documentation... no mention until users found large investments not showing up and started raising a stink. Dropping scheduled final release promised for years. Bug laden comercial releases that were for all intents and purposes unusable, and remained so for months.... and I got all that for $700 bucks mor if include updates over the years. Then comes a little application that undermines the reason for dropping DX support by maintaining it while pushing vst2.4 into territory that Yesterdaw said was impossible. THat pissed me off. So i checked it out. IT was ok, I was able to use it to write that little song... midi and all at v1.4x or something... but I really missed the lanes feature... I posted. I got a PM from the Dev!? We discussed some shit. I got a test build in an hour? WTF is this for real? I was even more pissed now. I couldn't believe this I wasn't even a registered user, but I was a major complainer begging for cockos to make reaper more like yesterdaw. The fact is and this is where I used to get defensive, and pissed off at the little app that can and its zealous users:

Reaper does not have the Midi feature set of many other host out there but it is usable. And while midi is usable, it's audio capabilities kill those of the other hosts I own and I own a lot. How can that be given the price point? Cockos offers its devs to me (the community), not a host of sidetracking moderators there to put out fires and dangle carrots. Reaper's work flow... thats a personal thing. Granted it may not be intuitive out of the box. I hated it until I stopped trying to make the clone of my last preferred daw. I was pissed, and I still am.

But really, what does this all add up to? Maybe a hill of beans. I still get excited by new releases for all the software I own. I will still post new features threads, unless I am beaten to the punch in. I will try to be respectful of opinions, and hosts, and goats in black t-shirts. I will live a little, love a little, and maybe sing a song. I will give props where they are due. If I had a hammer, Kumbaya!

greetings
.t

[Tallisman]

So maybe as a forum community we can, collectively, draw a line somewhere here, and instead of embracing the literary sword and cudgel, and sly deceit and clumsily hidden personal attacks based on often erroneously perceived slights of old, as a default means of compelled response, share, in good spirits, discussion of the virtues of workflow methods, attributes we use and would like to see, and the occasional, mutually sensible, comparison without everything degenerating into a extinction level event.


Alex.

Alex!

you are my hero!

bravo!


.t

[headquest]

Well I thank you and I try to keep it civil. I try to keep it well balanced and open minded as most people do, you included.

Thanks for that Tallis

Excellent post, and interesting to read your story. Thanks also for your help on the Cockos forum - as you can see I'm still very interested in Reaper, and I guess that - like Hink - I'm still eyeing it up as a future host.

Just recently I came within an inch of buying Yesterdaw... but stopped in my tracks right before paying out. Cashflow basically - I thought I'd wait till next month. Then I spotted that even in a positive Yesterdaw thread here there are people having huge issues with it. So I agree that Reaper is very tempting indeed, and your post on the subject just now was also very helpful

Like others I guess I have one or two must-haves before I go for it though. In my case it's the zero-crossing snap. I know that as Bevoss points out in many situations a small crossfade does the job, but I'm into loop creation so the zero-crossing snap is particularly useful for that context. I'd still like to see REX2 support added too, though that's less of a dealbreaker.

Cheers

[koolkeys]

I am simply stating that you claim that hoards of Reaperites wait in shallows for a chance to slag of other hosts at the drop of a dime is crap. In fact, judging by the first 15 posts the reverse is also true. But shit always seems to hit the fan.

Ah, c'mon now. I think in the name of fairness and not exaggerating, you can't really find where anyone said this here, right?

I think maybe you are expanding on purpose here. I do hope so, because nobody has said that here.

On a more positive note, if I can't get the cue points working with Audition and Kontakt, Reaper will be in my sights just for making loop points. It works with other samplers and Audition. And it works with other editors/hosts and Kontakt. Just can't seem to get Kontakt and Audition to work yet. We'll see!

(sorry, I guess that got a bit off topic still, but there really isn't a topic here, is there?)

Brent

[C-note]

Reaper does not have the Midi feature set of many other host out there but it is usable. And while midi is usable, it's audio capabilities kill those of the other hosts I own and I own a lot.

Hi Tallis,

In this new version can you tell me how to open the piano roll and edit multiple midi tracks? If I select multiple midi tracks and open the piano roll only one part shows up. This feature would make Reaper almost usable for me in the midi area.

Thanks,

C

[Alex Stone]

Reaper does not have the Midi feature set of many other host out there but it is usable. And while midi is usable, it's audio capabilities kill those of the other hosts I own and I own a lot.

Hi Tallis,

In this new version can you tell me how to open the piano roll and edit multiple midi tracks? If I select multiple midi tracks and open the piano roll only one part shows up. This feature would make Reaper almost usable for me in the midi area.

Thanks,

C

C-note, i can field this one.

In short you can't do it yet. The midi editor will display all channels, or one at a time, but not multiple tracks at once. This has been forwarded as a request to the devs, and with the inevitable midi development to come, it's a reasonable bet that it will be on the list.

You can however, at the moment, open a midi editor instance for each item, so you could have 5 editors, for example, open at once, or docked, ready for use.

As has been said here quite a few times, midi is in line for some serious development, and given the speed of Reaper development so far, it can't be too far away.

Not an ideal solution for you at the moment, i know. I'm writing classical music, and had to be creative with the current midi tool set, but i'm still ploughing on ok.

I'm sure there will be plenty of users willing to keep people here updated with any developments to come.

Alex.

[NAS]

I've made detailed posts of what I felt Reaper could improve in the past, and those posts were received well by other Reaper users here on KVR, to the point where they asked if I could repeat those posts at Reaper's forums. Of course, I got flamed over there for doing so by Justin himself. His reasons were that my opinions didn't matter because I wasn't a paid user. Oh well.


Brent

Please back this up with a link
This seems like a strong statement to make without posting a link
HERE Hopefully not that thread because Justin never mentions paying customer
So please post the link or stop baiting Reaper users like you did in this thread when Bevoss and Alex stone brought it back on topic and started discussing the new features

Bad mouthing developers is a bad step forward for somebody who qoute "Does a lot of writing for reviews"
So please link and i will drop this

Also you have now twice said that there is "No real topic here" while people are discussing the new features in Reaper
Seriously dude stop hiding your feelings uh ?
The thread isnt important to you so no topic right ?
How about the new features in Reaper and some of Bevoss magic macro goodness being discussed and so on
That is a very very bad way to behave im afraid

We have people on here complaining of the Reaper users always comparing it to other hosts and when i did a search for "Not a customer" post at the Reaper forum i could not believe how many comparisons you make with other hosts
In fact you even started two threads titled
"What can Reaper do that other hosts can't"
"Reaper Vs other hosts - Why ?"

I really hope that anybody who is defending you or thinking that you are not over the top towards Reaper and it's users goes and sees your silly behaviour at the Reaper forums where i have to be honest after doing the search to see if Justin did say that i have never seen one person create so many arguements or as you like to call them and i qoute "Passionate discussions"

From an outsiders point of view (I own pretty much ever host available not only for use but for testing plugins) this is seriously getting out of hand

The blame is being placed squarely at Reaper users feet for creating these thread derailing arguements and everyone from the outside can see the reality

Seriously why do you think "Dont mention Reaper , Runs and hides " is such a popular phrase here at KVR nowadays
(please dont search it may be worded different but we have all seen it)

NAS

[koolkeys]

The link you posted to was a direct copy and paste from a post here at KVR, which Pipelineaudio asked me to repeat over at the Reaper forums.

The response I got from Justin, in response to something I didn't even post there originally, was that my requests didn't matter. Fine, I'll live. He stated in that thread that he would rather listen to users who liked Reaper. Me, I took that as him just dismissing the possibility that I may actually be a potential customer.

By the way, if you think THAT is badmouthing developers, man you're sensitive. Or maybe you're just upset that I don't praise Justin like he's the second coming. I don't know. But seriously, if you think that something I said here is somehow badmouthing developers, I'd like to see that as well. Is it because I said that Justin flamed me? It's a forum term that, depending on your use of it, applies in that case. How is that badmouthing him?

And about the whole baiting thing, give it a freaking rest. I didn't bait anyone in this thread. You won't find it. Instead, I get accused of derailing a thread that was a mistake and was off topic most of the way. This was the SECOND POST about the new features, and when the discussion started the other post was still around. But heck, even I was discussing the new features. And to make it even worse, Bevoss himself(ya know, the one I apparently "bait") admitted to baiting. But I'm sure that will be viewed as "different" than what you accuse me of.

Now, you conveniently mention my other topics at the Reaper forums, yet you fail to mention what they are about and why they were asked. You also failed to mention that even most of the users didn't mind those topics. Outside of a couple of people who have ongoing dislike for me, it was all perfectly fine. Oh, and you also failed to mention that those posts don't make up the majority of my posting at the Reaper forums. Usually, it's fine. Or the dozen or so times where I joined Reaper chat a while back and discussed new features with Pipelineaudio, Alex Stone, JBM, Tallisman, and others. All without issue.

Here's the bottom line. I couldn't give a flip whether you think I'm acting "badly" or not. I don't need your approval or anyone else's. And I don't need anyone's permission to participate in these threads. I asked a few times already in this thread for somebody to back up the accusations that I'm "always around derailing threads", and nobody has done so. NONE. Have I ever? Probably. But if you will look(not just for the posts that seemingly help your side) you will find that in the majority of cases, that just isn't true.

I do have my reasons, and they don't have to be alright with you. You don't have to believe me either. That's life.

Brent

[C-note]

Reaper does not have the Midi feature set of many other host out there but it is usable. And while midi is usable, it's audio capabilities kill those of the other hosts I own and I own a lot.

Hi Tallis,

In this new version can you tell me how to open the piano roll and edit multiple midi tracks? If I select multiple midi tracks and open the piano roll only one part shows up. This feature would make Reaper almost usable for me in the midi area.

Thanks,

C

C-note, i can field this one.

In short you can't do it yet. The midi editor will display all channels, or one at a time, but not multiple tracks at once. This has been forwarded as a request to the devs, and with the inevitable midi development to come, it's a reasonable bet that it will be on the list.

You can however, at the moment, open a midi editor instance for each item, so you could have 5 editors, for example, open at once, or docked, ready for use.

As has been said here quite a few times, midi is in line for some serious development, and given the speed of Reaper development so far, it can't be too far away.

Not an ideal solution for you at the moment, i know. I'm writing classical music, and had to be creative with the current midi tool set, but i'm still ploughing on ok.

I'm sure there will be plenty of users willing to keep people here updated with any developments to come.

Alex.

Thanks Alex,

Congrats to you for actually being able to use Reaper for midi, more patient than I.

Is Reaper able to replace sound in a video?


C

[NAS]

The response I got from Justin, in response to something I didn't even post there originally, was that my requests didn't matter.

Wow either you can't read english or you just have a serious "Everybody hates me" complex
I posted the link dude and you have blatantly just lied again about it (Yes you LIED earlier when you stated matter as fact that your ideas were written off because you weren't a paying customer)
He didn't say they didn't matter
He said the way you request things is tiresome
He then even gives you a run down of why the way you request something is so tiresome and to be honest i agree with him

I didn't bait anyone in this thread. You won't find it.

Oh erm yes yes you did
Alex brught the topic back on track and you again had to revert back to the drailment when maybe a PM would have sufficed
OK then peple ignored you and brought it back on track again and what do you do
You make snyde comments like "This thread has no topic" twice when the new features of Reaper were being discussed

Here's the bottom line. I couldn't give a flip whether you think I'm acting "badly" or not.

Yes you could or you wouldn't reply with the rubbish you just typed im afraid
You are trying to cover your tracks and conveniently forgetting that you accused a dev of something that wasn't true and was just a figment of your imagination

I asked a few times already in this thread for somebody to back up the accusations that I'm "always around derailing threads", and nobody has done so. NONE. Have I ever? Probably.

Yep you sure have

I do have my reasons, and they don't have to be alright with you. You don't have to believe me either. That's life.

Ok so now we are getting to it then uh ?
You are now admitting that you have derailled Reaper threads all because "You do have your reasons" ?
Well at least you are finally being honest

I think it is pretty obvious from the link i posted what your reasons are
You offered ideas to a dev in a particularly annoying way to that particular dev
He put you in your place about your attitude although he didnt write off your ideas and actually gave you a full reply concerning your ideas
You are now angry at said developer for being "Rude" to you as you put it and that is shining through clearer than sunlight

I think you seriously need to take a step back and have a look at yourself
I couldn't care less what you do or how you do it but your first post in this thread was correcting a Reaper user about AA
I did the same t you when you lied about a dev
Thats all
A lot has been made in this thread about how it is OK to jump on Reaper users for wild innacuracies so its the same both ways

As stated before i have no interest in furthering Reaper at all i couldn't give a shit if Justin stopped developing tommorrow
I'm just putting a bit of reality back in to this derailling b**lsh*t that has been going down with some users here

NAS

[koolkeys]

Wow, you've got some serious problems man.

Brent

[Pipelineaudio]

[ I've made detailed posts of what I felt Reaper could improve in the past, and those posts were received well by other Reaper users here on KVR, to the point where they asked if I could repeat those posts at Reaper's forums. Of course, I got flamed over there for doing so by Justin himself. His reasons were that my opinions didn't matter because I wasn't a paid user. Oh well.
Brent

You better back up that nonsense with some evidence. From the very start (yeah, BEFORE you even COULD pay for REAPER) user input was encouraged in a way I've never seen in any app, save what I have heard about EXT.

[koolkeys]

You better back up that nonsense with some evidence.

Or what?

I posted that thread because YOU TOLD ME TO, and Justin replied the way he did. It's all there. Because he didn't look at me as a potential customer, the opinions weren't taken well. There's nothing to dispute that because even Justin himself said that was the reason he replied that way. If your interpretation of "flame" is different than mine, then yes there could be a misunderstanding.

Otherwise, I ask again. Or what?

Brent

[NAS]

Wow, you've got some serious problems man.

Brent

Well im just stating facts
Admittadly facts you dont like
Lying isn't good and you have done it twice now in this thread just to back up your silly claims that are well just beyond normal thought

If i where you i would retract your lies as soon as possible because all you are doing by avoiding the issue is harming your own reputation of which i personally know nothing at all
I have never read any of your "Reviews" and so i am very much unbiased here
I just dont really like lies or sly attempts at ruining other users usage of these otherwise great fora
Remarks like "This thread has no topic" when people are happily discussing the topic relevent to the title is a little off to be truthful and maybe you should refrain from posting in topics you dont deem to be relevent

As you wer told by Justin the link posted "You dont seem to realise that other users have other uses" and this is very relevent to this thread too

Now if you want to discuss this further i suggest you PM me but i also suggest you retract you lies and maybe even apologise because character defamation isn't very nice at all is it lets be honest


NAS

[koolkeys]

I stand by my words.

PM sent, btw.

Brent