Very substantial new Reaper version 2.4

[koolkeys]

I think it is pretty obvious from the link i posted what your reasons are
You offered ideas to a dev in a particularly annoying way to that particular dev
He put you in your place about your attitude although he didnt write off your ideas and actually gave you a full reply concerning your ideas
You are now angry at said developer for being "Rude" to you as you put it and that is shining through clearer than sunlight

That was just the latest excuse. Koolkeys was derailing threads long before that. He consistently gets the thread focused on himself (see term: big ego) just as this one is once again.

Spending your time discussing Koolkeys is exactly what he wants to happen. That is the only conclusion one can come to when after so much time nearly every time he speaks up he subtly or directly turns the thread to focus on himself.

I suggest the ignore option... then you do not have to read his posts and it is easier not to get sucked in.

Ah, here we are. Another "voice of reason".

I REALLY suggest the ignore option if what I say bothers you. Please, it would do us both a favor.

Brent

[Watto]

No, Reaper's MIDI is rudimentary.I dont consider it "usable".And I'm quite aware that Reaper has only been around for two years, but that hasnt stopped them from
adding to it's great audio capabilties. Repeatedly, with every update.

Hey Bob,

I was just wondering, what exactly is missing in Reaper's MIDI? I'm not picking a fight at all - just curious

It does everything I want it to, but I'm no MIDI expert - I just use basic stuff, like editing the notes in the piano roll, quantize, etc.

[NAS]

1 Render to MIDI (Make a MIDI file of the entire song)
2 Total Recall (Save external hardware patches in song data)
3 Compositional (Slicers/Dicers/Arps/Step sequencing/Chorder)
4 Workflow tidying (Thing like changing the MIDI channel of an item are a pain)

Those are just a few i have noticed and i'm sure there is much more


NAS

[Bevoss]

No, Reaper's MIDI is rudimentary.I dont consider it "usable".And I'm quite aware that Reaper has only been around for two years, but that hasnt stopped them from
adding to it's great audio capabilties. Repeatedly, with every update.

Actually it depends on what level you use it...it's quite usable for me, obviously you need more like a lot of users.

I mostly use it for live V drum editing (VDrums played live, triggering Steven Slate Samples, edited afterwards)...so I can work without Groove Quantize and similar power-midi needs.

The midi features that would really impress me would be keyboard navigation by notes (ie all pitch/selected pitch) both selecting the next pitch and deselecting other pitches, or adding/subtracting from a selection via keys. It's kinda like Cubase's only better. It's in detail here:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p= ... stcount=23


Also being able to drag select notes from a bar measure, that includes the 'gap' to the next note...that's kinda essential for live midi drum editing, since a lot of notes move around the grid lines and it's SLOW to have to find the next paste point manually...copying and then pasting FROM the bar measure is so much faster... Domino can do this.

In-Line Midi would probably fix this too, so either way would suit me.


I'm REAL happy with this new update, but I understand why you can't use Reaper...on the other hand, I can, and am confident my midi issues will be improved in time, maybe better than I have speculated...they ARE very smart cookies at Cockos!

Anyway, I hope YOUR needed updates come sooner than later...

[pdxindy]

1 Render to MIDI (Make a MIDI file of the entire song)
2 Total Recall (Save external hardware patches in song data)
3 Compositional (Slicers/Dicers/Arps/Step sequencing/Chorder)
4 Workflow tidying (Thing like changing the MIDI channel of an item are a pain)

Those are just a few i have noticed and i'm sure there is much more


NAS

Also editing multiple midi tracks
inline editing
groove quantize
and I could think of more, but I have not used Reaper in a couple months

[Bevoss]

just in case you missed that...

How do we define "Jumping" here?
Moving the edit cursor to the start of that note and selecting it - unselecting other notes?

Jump to next note (any pitch)
Jump to previous note (any pitch)
Jump to next note (current pitch)
Jump to previous note (current pitch)


Move the edit cursor to the start of the note, selecting it and unselecting all other notes I say (similar to item navigation actions). I'm not worried about the defaults as I'd base them around the arrow keys anyway. Myself, I'd also add these actions for selecting groups of notes:

Jump to next note, leaving other notes selected (any pitch)
Jump to previous note, leaving other notes selected (any pitch)
Jump to next note, leaving other notes selected (current pitch)
Jump to previous note, leaving other notes selected (current pitch)

And if someone wants to go really crazy:

Unselect Leftmost selected note
Unselect Rightmost selected note

(for when you overshoot!)

With these actions , you might hardly have to use the mouse again in the midi editor!

[Art Evans]

But it's time to stop glossing over what isnt there by going on and on about what is there.

As far as I can see there's no "glossing over" going on, just some people saying that the midi side is adequate, or nearly adequate, for their needs, and other people saying that it isn't - often coupled with an implication that it ought to be, or even that it makes itself out to be something that it isn't in that respect. "Glossing over" implies that there's something to hide, and I don't think there is. If people can't talk about what is there because some people think, of their own volition, that something isn't there that should be, that's a bit weird. It's a bit like saying "you shouldn't be pleased because I'm not".

Just looking through the Reaper main site front page, the word "midi" barely appears. On the detail pages there are short, hype-free statements of what midi functionality it does have. It simply doesn't set itself out to be anything great on the midi side, and of course there's nothing whatever about what the developers have in mind for future direction.

I suppose the developers could go public and say "we've heard people are saying it should have this and that, but it's not going to" but that would probably be a first in the arena of commercial software development. They could more realistically ask where anyone got the idea that any particular feature could reasonably be expected - now of course I can't remember everything they've said, so maybe someone can point up whether there's been any hype that I've missed.

And another thing... - there's a lot said recently about how all the enhancements are audio-related and there's little midi functionality being added, but then there's night-and-day different types of audio work that people do - sometimes there's been weeks or months where nothing has been added which bears on what I do on the audio side (classical, the kind of thing where it's all linear recording followed by editing), and then we have the most recent release which adds some very handy stuff that I listed at the outset - most of which is deeply boring to people recording with punch-ins and comping. Everyone's work and needs are different and I don't see why the developers are expected to address everyone's needs all the time, or at all - one can but hope.

[Tallisman]

Reaper does not have the Midi feature set of many other host out there but it is usable. And while midi is usable, it's audio capabilities kill those of the other hosts I own and I own a lot.

No, Reaper's MIDI is rudimentary.I dont consider it "usable".And I'm quite aware that Reaper has only been around for two years, but that hasnt stopped them from
adding to it's great audio capabilties. Repeatedly, with every update.

It's time to stop just dismissing the lack of MIDI progress by pointing out how great Reaper is at audio. They're two separate issues.Me and thousands of others cannot stop using other DAWs and go 100% Reaper ( which I'd love to do BTW)until the MIDI functionality is improved.

I'm far more pro than anti-Reaper. But it's time to stop glossing over what isnt there by going on and on about what is there.

Perhaps my needs are rudimentary.
Who's dismissing what now?

I too hope that reaper finds your midi needs addressed sooner than later. What are they? I am sure that the Cockos Devs are aware of this thread.

I hope that you can find the time to explain what is missing and how you use it. that would benefit us all i believe.

many greetings
.t

[pdxindy]

But it's time to stop glossing over what isnt there by going on and on about what is there.

As far as I can see there's no "glossing over" going on, just some people saying that the midi side is adequate, or nearly adequate, for their needs, and other people saying that it isn't - often coupled with an implication that it ought to be, or even that it makes itself out to be something that it isn't in that respect. "Glossing over" implies that there's something to hide, and I don't think there is. If people can't talk about what is there because some people think, of their own volition, that something isn't there that should be, that's a bit weird. It's a bit like saying "you shouldn't be pleased because I'm not".

Reaper Midi mostly sucks (no offense intended). When someone says this, there generally are a few "Well, it is fine for me" comments from people who do not do much midi work. Such comments are irrelevant to the fact that midi in Reaper is quite weak compared to the more established hosts.

It becomes frustrating asking for photoshop functionality and always someone comes back saying they find iPhoto adequate. So? The two have nothing to do with each other yet they do get equated as that what is always said in reply. It is kinda natural for someone to defend something they like when someone else criticizes it, but it does get tedious and could be called a kind of glossing over.

Well, no point to expect Reaper to ever be strong in midi. That is not and has not been the focus of the developers for their own needs. If you want strong midi tools, get something else. There are more people doing mostly audio than people doing mostly midi, so Reaper will have no shortage of happy users.

Because I like the development model so much, I also wish it were stronger in midi... but it is not, so I stopped trying to use it. Oh well...

Thanks for your good posts
cheers

[Sascha Franck]

I am not pro or contra Reaper per se or anything like that, but for me, it's also the MIDI side of things spoiling the fun. Unfortunately, it's just like that with almost any host and a major reason why I'm still staying with Logic - which involved getting a Mac, putting up with the new V8 (which, in many areas, sucks and defenitely doesn't justify the timt it took them to release it), including all the consequences coming along with that move (less plugins, be it free or not, less programs overall, higher hardware costs, etc.).

There's a few main things that I'm using like every minute while working with MIDI in Logic:

- The socalled "extended parameter box". That's just the most friggin' excellent thing anybody ever invented for dealing with MIDI parts. For those not knowing: Whenever you have that box opened and select a MIDI part, it'll automatically display the used quantize, dynamic, delay and whatever parameters for that part. Also, whatever you do in that box is non-destructive, just playback parameters. There's something similar for Cubase, but it doesn't display quantize values or (especially swing-) quantize strengths. And that's the next thing. You can alter quantize strengths in realtime, no need to use any functions or keycommands, which you will not know about anymore, once applied.
No other host offers such a functionality and it's a godsend for anybody dealing with slight timing variations to make a groove (or whatever) more lively.

- The velocity moustool in the piano roll. I have it on my right mousebutton all the time, so whenever I want to change velocities of whatever selected notes, I just use my right mousebutton and drag up/down, again without having to use any menus or info bars. An incredible time saviour.

- Maybe less important, but still: The loop functionality (which also works for audio parts). You select a part in your arrange, press "L" and it'll loop throughout the song, unless you stop it (by cutting the last looped part or inserting something else on that track). This is working for parts of any length, so you can as well loop, say, a 7/8 portion of whatever rhythmically oriented part in a 4/4 context and create nice polyrhythmic structures instantly. Or you can just loop very small portions of audio to create whatever stuttering effects. This function isn't just very handy but offers some creative options, too.

These might be the main things (well, ok, there's ton's more, but I won't annoy you with details of transformers and other MIDI tools Logic has on offer).

Maybe someone active at the Reaper forums could ask whether any of these could be realised easily in future versions. Would do so myself, but my plane to Crete (3 weeks of holidays there, woohoo!) starts in 5 hours.

[Bevoss]

There's a few main things that I'm using like every minute while working with MIDI in Logic:

- The socalled "extended parameter box". That's just the most friggin' excellent thing anybody ever invented for dealing with MIDI parts. For those not knowing: Whenever you have that box opened and select a MIDI part, it'll automatically display the used quantize, dynamic, delay and whatever parameters for that part. Also, whatever you do in that box is non-destructive, just playback parameters. There's something similar for Cubase, but it doesn't display quantize values or (especially swing-) quantize strengths. And that's the next thing. You can alter quantize strengths in realtime, no need to use any functions or keycommands, which you will not know about anymore, once applied.
No other host offers such a functionality and it's a godsend for anybody dealing with slight timing variations to make a groove (or whatever) more lively.

- The velocity moustool in the piano roll. I have it on my right mousebutton all the time, so whenever I want to change velocities of whatever selected notes, I just use my right mousebutton and drag up/down, again without having to use any menus or info bars. An incredible time saviour.

- Maybe less important, but still: The loop functionality (which also works for audio parts). You select a part in your arrange, press "L" and it'll loop throughout the song, unless you stop it (by cutting the last looped part or inserting something else on that track). This is working for parts of any length, so you can as well loop, say, a 7/8 portion of whatever rhythmically oriented part in a 4/4 context and create nice polyrhythmic structures instantly. Or you can just loop very small portions of audio to create whatever stuttering effects. This function isn't just very handy but offers some creative options, too.

These might be the main things (well, ok, there's ton's more, but I won't annoy you with details of transformers and other MIDI tools Logic has on offer).

Maybe someone active at the Reaper forums could ask whether any of these could be realised easily in future versions. Would do so myself, but my plane to Crete (3 weeks of holidays there, woohoo!) starts in 5 hours.

Lets see:

#1 sounds awesome! All in one window eh, that's a great idea.

#2 is actually there already, even easier than Logic...it's a simple left-click:



#3..well it's easy enough to just drag the right side of a loop as far as you want, I wouldn't say the Logic way is any better myself (I've actually used that before in Logic Express, back in the day)

But perhaps Xenakios could add that to his plugin, he's added stuff like repeat paste etc, which is similar and mappable. Something like 'Loop to End of Project' perhaps?

EDIT: my bad, it is in there (I thought it was):



Place the cursor as far as you want it to loop, select the item in question, and hit your shortcut for this (you have to map it, no big deal)

Quite easy to macro that with 'go to end of project' if you want.

Yayy! 2 out of 3 in this case...

Thanks a lot for these intelligent suggestions Sasha, I'll put a link to your post here on the reaper FR thread. Add anymore that you feel are essential.

Cheers

[Tallisman]

There's a few main things that I'm using like every minute while working with MIDI in Logic:

- The socalled "extended parameter box". That's just the most friggin' excellent thing anybody ever invented for dealing with MIDI parts. For those not knowing: Whenever you have that box opened and select a MIDI part, it'll automatically display the used quantize, dynamic, delay and whatever parameters for that part. Also, whatever you do in that box is non-destructive, just playback parameters. There's something similar for Cubase, but it doesn't display quantize values or (especially swing-) quantize strengths. And that's the next thing. You can alter quantize strengths in realtime, no need to use any functions or keycommands, which you will not know about anymore, once applied.
No other host offers such a functionality and it's a godsend for anybody dealing with slight timing variations to make a groove (or whatever) more lively.

- The velocity moustool in the piano roll. I have it on my right mousebutton all the time, so whenever I want to change velocities of whatever selected notes, I just use my right mousebutton and drag up/down, again without having to use any menus or info bars. An incredible time saviour.

- Maybe less important, but still: The loop functionality (which also works for audio parts). You select a part in your arrange, press "L" and it'll loop throughout the song, unless you stop it (by cutting the last looped part or inserting something else on that track). This is working for parts of any length, so you can as well loop, say, a 7/8 portion of whatever rhythmically oriented part in a 4/4 context and create nice polyrhythmic structures instantly. Or you can just loop very small portions of audio to create whatever stuttering effects. This function isn't just very handy but offers some creative options, too.

These might be the main things (well, ok, there's ton's more, but I won't annoy you with details of transformers and other MIDI tools Logic has on offer).

Maybe someone active at the Reaper forums could ask whether any of these could be realised easily in future versions. Would do so myself, but my plane to Crete (3 weeks of holidays there, woohoo!) starts in 5 hours.

Lets see:

#1 sounds awesome! All in one window eh, that's a great idea.

#2 is actually there already, even easier than Logic...it's a simple left-click:

[snip]

#3..well it's easy enough to just drag the right side of a loop as far as you want, I wouldn't say the Logic way is any better myself (I've actually used that before in Logic Express, back in the day)

But perhaps Xenakios could add that to his plugin, he's added stuff like repeat paste etc, which is similar and mappable. Something like 'Loop to End of Project' perhaps?

EDIT: my bad, it is in there (I thought it was):

[snip]

Place the cursor as far as you want it to loop, select the item in question, and hit your shortcut for this (you have to map it, no big deal)

Quite easy to macro that with 'go to end of project' if you want.

Yayy! 2 out of 3 in this case...

Thanks a lot for these intelligent suggestions Sasha, I'll put a link to your post here on the reaper FR thread. Add anymore that you feel are essential.

Cheers

Hey Bevoss I am not sure about number 2. If I understand it correctly, a right click and drag automatically adjusts the volume of selected notes - no menu, no aiming at volume handles... no zooming in for finer control. Just select, right-click and drag fro colume adjustments.

Hey Sascha Franck, did I get you right?

.t

[Bevoss]

Hey Bevoss I am not sure about number 2. If I understand it correctly, a right click and drag automatically adjusts the volume of selected notes - no menu, no aiming at volume handles... no zooming in for finer control. Just select, right-click and drag fro colume adjustments.

Ahh, if so I misunderstood, I thought he meant dragging on the selected notes, which IS possible without menus, just select that option. But right-click dragging anywhere to adjust, no.

I guess it'd be cool if you could hold down a modifier key to do that in Reaper!

Somethings wrong with the universe if I'm answering midi questions...

[Caleb]

You still can't conveniently select and move CC data. This one is death for me and moving with notes is not good enough.

Luckily you can at least specifically move CC data via the event list using the quirky but very functional Event Properties box.

I like REAPER for mixing once the composition is finished. So either another host is going to start being good enough that I drop REAPER for mixing, or REAPER becomes good enough for composition via midi that I drop the other host for composition.

I don't think either is going to happen in the near future.

Regards
Caleb

[headquest]

in this case there is very little funny about it unfortunately, but I do think it speaks volumes about how Brent views respect and loyalty, it's quite admirable imo...

+1. Brent is genuinely "one of the good guys". I think that those who attack him here would take a different view if they knew him more.

That's true for all of us of course. Though misunderstandings are not uncommon on forums such as this, most people who spend their time here are not deliberately argumentative or willfully ungenerous. Let's all try to be gracious

Spending your time discussing Koolkeys is exactly what he wants to happen. That is the only conclusion one can come to when after so much time nearly every time he speaks up he subtly or directly turns the thread to focus on himself.

If you only ever saw koolkeys' posts about REAPER then I can understand why you might think that. I have seen him help countless people on the Tracktion and Sonar forums in the past, plus in other sections of the forum. I have also seen him spend huge amounts of time helping people online, not to mention all the beta testing he does, simply out of kindness and commitment to the community.

With respect then, I think that when you see the bigger picture of koolkeys involvement with the community you are forced to reconsider his posts about REAPER in a different context

And now back to REAPER discussion...