Very substantial new Reaper version 2.4

[headquest]

I think notation would require someone with pretty indepth knowledge in that area to program. I can't picture that coming in Reaper unless they buy in someone to do it, otherwise it would be not very time effective. That's where a small team has a downside - to be used to best effect and for the most rapid development, they need to do what they can do rapidly (if that isn't too circular!).

I really hope that at some point REAPER does get notation - I think that for some of us it would be the missing link that would turn REAPER absolutely into a must-have. The audio as you say is already terrific (albeit with just a few omissions) and adding Notation as part of a wider MIDI overhaul would be huge!

[Kloz]

well...i've just grabed a demo of Temper...

...i think if Reaper and Temper where ONE...it would the THE MOST HAPPY WORKFLOW DAW in the world....and if i put USINE VST inside that REAMPER (yeah..i had to name it !!!)....it would be just like...OMG IT'S THE HOLY SACRED DAW !!!

[Bevoss]

well...i've just grabed a demo of Temper...

...i think if Reaper and Temper where ONE...it would the THE MOST HAPPY WORKFLOW DAW in the world....and if i put USINE VST inside that REAMPER (yeah..i had to name it !!!)....it would be just like...OMG IT'S THE HOLY SACRED DAW !!!

I actually suggested to the Temper developer that he add slave-to-midi to Temper, so we could sync it to Reaper...and IIRC, he added that recently.

There's a tutorial here on slaving Live etc to Reaper, you should be able to use that info to get that happening with Temper (unless it actually isn't implemented like I remember )

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14485

[bbtr]

http://www.kvraudio.com/news/8642.html

[Bevoss]

Ahh too bad, I thought you could slave it to Reaper (which is preferable, the navigation is much better in Reaper imo).

Still, at least you can sync them!

I've worked out a separate midi program won't help me, because I use odd-time signatures and live midi drums, and really need to line up the midi with the projects audio, in tracks and markers...so I'm just going to use Reaper, and wait for the midi to catch up.

But if you're a 4/4 kinda user, the Temper/Reaper combo could well be the ticket...

[koolkeys]

I think notation would require someone with pretty indepth knowledge in that area to program. I can't picture that coming in Reaper unless they buy in someone to do it, otherwise it would be not very time effective. That's where a small team has a downside - to be used to best effect and for the most rapid development, they need to do what they can do rapidly (if that isn't too circular!).

I really hope that at some point REAPER does get notation - I think that for some of us it would be the missing link that would turn REAPER absolutely into a must-have. The audio as you say is already terrific (albeit with just a few omissions) and adding Notation as part of a wider MIDI overhaul would be huge!

I tend to disagree. There are so many budget notation packages, even free ones, that all do it better than any host can do.

Personally, I think it's a LOT of work to add usable notation to a program. Justin can definitely do it, but there's much more than just translating midi notes into individual notes on a score. You have to code in all the notation rules, overlaps, how notes handle bar lines, expression markings, etc. I think it's just too much work that isn't usually worth the time.

I have heard as a rumor(as in, one person mentioned they heard it somewhere) that Finale may soon be a VST plugin, which would be SWEET. But it's not in Finale 2009 which comes out this week or next, so it's at least a year away.

Regardless, I would rather development time be spent on something else. Notation would bring a whole slew of new bugs since it's essentially a program built into a program. And if notation is only basic in a host, then I doubt most people will get use out of it.

But that's just my opinion. Others may think differently.

Brent

[Cordelia]

I think notation would require someone with pretty indepth knowledge in that area to program. I can't picture that coming in Reaper unless they buy in someone to do it, otherwise it would be not very time effective. That's where a small team has a downside - to be used to best effect and for the most rapid development, they need to do what they can do rapidly (if that isn't too circular!).

I really hope that at some point REAPER does get notation - I think that for some of us it would be the missing link that would turn REAPER absolutely into a must-have. The audio as you say is already terrific (albeit with just a few omissions) and adding Notation as part of a wider MIDI overhaul would be huge!

I tend to disagree. There are so many budget notation packages, even free ones, that all do it better than any host can do.

Personally, I think it's a LOT of work to add usable notation to a program. Justin can definitely do it, but there's much more than just translating midi notes into individual notes on a score. You have to code in all the notation rules, overlaps, how notes handle bar lines, expression markings, etc. I think it's just too much work that isn't usually worth the time.

I have heard as a rumor(as in, one person mentioned they heard it somewhere) that Finale may soon be a VST plugin, which would be SWEET. But it's not in Finale 2009 which comes out this week or next, so it's at least a year away.

Regardless, I would rather development time be spent on something else. Notation would bring a whole slew of new bugs since it's essentially a program built into a program. And if notation is only basic in a host, then I doubt most people will get use out of it.

But that's just my opinion. Others may think differently.

Brent

I agree koolkeys. Not that I don't dream of the all-in-one DAW, and I would love notation in Reaper, but obviously until the MIDI side of Reaper is perfected, adding notation capabilities might be a mess.
Finale as VST is an exciting prospect!

[koolkeys]

Well, I also don't really know or agree that including notation really improves the MIDI. I mean, general MIDI editing doesn't really improve except for a new view. And if the notation is advanced enough that it DOES somehow improve that actual MIDI of the program, then it will likely take a LOT of time away from development. Maybe Justin could do it quicker, but it's still a bigger addition to Reaper than ANYTHING that has been added since maybe the beginning of Reaper.

I guess I just don't consider notation as "MIDI". I look at it as just another view/environment. Maybe I'm just thinking more traditional and classical instead of what some others may want from it.

Brent

[Cordelia]

Well, I also don't really know or agree that including notation really improves the MIDI. I mean, general MIDI editing doesn't really improve except for a new view. And if the notation is advanced enough that it DOES somehow improve that actual MIDI of the program, then it will likely take a LOT of time away from development. Maybe Justin could do it quicker, but it's still a bigger addition to Reaper than ANYTHING that has been added since maybe the beginning of Reaper.

I guess I just don't consider notation as "MIDI". I look at it as just another view/environment. Maybe I'm just thinking more traditional and classical instead of what some others may want from it.

Brent

I think I wasn't clear-
I'm just thinking, since notation is dependent on MIDI in terms of the source of the material, adding notation now, when MIDI is not completed, would require even more work for Justin. As changes are made to how MIDI is handled, I'm sure changes would also have to be made to how the notation part of the software would respond.

Oh well, not much clearer, is it? I think I need food.

[koolkeys]

Well, I also don't really know or agree that including notation really improves the MIDI. I mean, general MIDI editing doesn't really improve except for a new view. And if the notation is advanced enough that it DOES somehow improve that actual MIDI of the program, then it will likely take a LOT of time away from development. Maybe Justin could do it quicker, but it's still a bigger addition to Reaper than ANYTHING that has been added since maybe the beginning of Reaper.

I guess I just don't consider notation as "MIDI". I look at it as just another view/environment. Maybe I'm just thinking more traditional and classical instead of what some others may want from it.

Brent

I think I wasn't clear-
I'm just thinking, since notation is dependent on MIDI in terms of the source of the material, adding notation now, when MIDI is not completed, would require even more work for Justin. As changes are made to how MIDI is handled, I'm sure changes would also have to be made to how the notation part of the software would respond.

Oh well, not much clearer, is it? I think I need food.

Sorry, I did understand. I guess I just worded it wrong so it seemed like I was suggesting something different. I do agree though. It actually may go hand in hand with what I was saying.

But I do agree. It would be almost pointless to add notation if MIDI is still pretty basic. Although it's not the worst MIDI around. As bad as Reaper's MIDI may be, it's definitely above some.

Brent

[Watto]

With respect then, I think that when you see the bigger picture of koolkeys involvement with the community you are forced to reconsider his posts about REAPER in a different context

I'm quite well aquainted with Brent, but I still get the impression he loudly proclaims his incompatibility with REAPER at every opportunity...

Being a nice guy (which he certainly is) doesn't give him a free pass for anything he likes, and I for one get a bit annoyed by his constant and unnecessary presence in these threads. This is KVR, so he can do what he likes, but I have no problem with people answering back, even a little peevishly

Brent, sorry if the above paragraph offended you - you do a lot of good work around here, but your REAPER work isn't your finest, IMO

And now back to REAPER discussion...

Indeed - I've said my piece now, so the world can be at peace *bows*

[koolkeys]

Being a nice guy (which he certainly is) doesn't give him a free pass for anything he likes, and I for one get a bit annoyed by his constant and unnecessary presence in these threads. This is KVR, so he can do what he likes, but I have no problem with people answering back, even a little peevishly

Brent, sorry if the above paragraph offended you - you do a lot of good work around here, but your REAPER work isn't your finest, IMO

No offense taken. I do understand.

However, people assume I have no interest in Reaper because I'm "incompatible" with it at this time. But they just assume wrong. I don't have a problem with people responding to me either. And there are very few people who I can even say that I "dislike". Disagreeing doesn't equal disliking them. I tend to see Bevoss as one of the most helpful Reaper users and quite an intelligent guy. We just don't seem to jive in these threads. Nothing more, nothing less(at least to me). I stopped posting very much in the Reaper forums lately because I felt my stay there was not welcome(I'm not upset, just staying away).

Sorry if my presence annoys you(genuinely). I can assure you my intentions are good and not what some people seem to believe.

Thanks for the good compliments though. Even on the internet, compliments can lift the spirit(which I need sometimes) when times get stressful and discouraging.


Cheers!

Brent

[Bob Nova]

Perhaps my needs are rudimentary.
Who's dismissing what now?

I too hope that reaper finds your midi needs addressed sooner than later. What are they? I am sure that the Cockos Devs are aware of this thread.

I hope that you can find the time to explain what is missing and how you use it. that would benefit us all i believe.

many greetings
.t

I want the MIDI features that have been around in other apps since 1994, when I got my first computer and sequencer ( Vision 2.0).Features that other apps have and have added to over the years.Things that Cubase,Logic, Digital Performer,Sonar et al have had for quite a while now, 5..10 years or more in some cases.

I dont see how me typing out an exhaustive list will "benefit all of us" as many of you do not require these features, so woudnt be familiar with them.And some other people in this thread have listed quite a number of them anyway.

But as I said earlier, I'd like to use Reaper but cant.Nothing anyone in this thread says can change that.I guess I'll just try it again in six months or so and see how things are doing.

[Bob Nova]

It becomes frustrating asking for photoshop functionality and always someone comes back saying they find iPhoto adequate. So? The two have nothing to do with each other yet they do get equated as that what is always said in reply. It is kinda natural for someone to defend something they like when someone else criticizes it, but it does get tedious and could be called a kind of glossing over.

That's a very good analogy.Well put.

[Bob Nova]

well...i've just grabed a demo of Temper...

...i think if Reaper and Temper where ONE...it would the THE MOST HAPPY WORKFLOW DAW in the world....and if i put USINE VST inside that REAMPER (yeah..i had to name it !!!)....it would be just like...OMG IT'S THE HOLY SACRED DAW !!!

That looks quite good. Perhaps Justin could make the Temper developer an offer he cant refuse.