Lexicon Vortex emulation?

[annode]

The whole problem with using Chainer is that you can't assign the morph slider or the randomize button to a controller.

You could emulate the Vortex pretty easily with Kore and its sound variations, but that's a fairly expensive solution if that's all you'd use it for...

ew

Hey ew.
I was afraid of that concerning chainer.
I will have a look into it.
Chainer is versitile and inexpensive, I was hoping some vortex owner would spare some of their time and make a "close enough" patch with it using freeware so everyone can have a "close enough".
Of course kore,like you said is not cheap and common among us.
I'd go into chainer and check into those parameters now, but i'm recording the outside for background...shit...someone hit a skunk!!! Jeez that smells.Figures, this would happen when I can't close the window now. haha.

[annode]

birrbitts wrote;

ok, just trying to give some friendly advice as I have an actual vortex in front of me & I have been working on an emulation using SynthMaker. The delays are in fact, interpolating delays, which really isn't all that fancy of a word.

How is the synthmaker project coming along? That would be very cool if you came up with at least a "close enough" version.
I don't have a vortex. I never heard anything but delay from one in perfomance.

birrbitts wrote;

The delays are in fact, interpolating delays, which really isn't all that fancy of a word.

I looked the word up in wikipedia. Maybe your a lot smarter then me or i'm not at all smart...but i had trouble following it.

birrbitts said;

If you want to make a morphing effect of some sort, chainer will get you there. If you want to emulate a vortex I think you may have a bit harder time taking that approach

So you really think what vortex does and what effect presets people might find popular are so freaking complex? I read a description of it. It doesn't sound like rocket science.

[mystran]

birrbitts wrote;

The delays are in fact, interpolating delays, which really isn't all that fancy of a word.

I looked the word up in wikipedia. Maybe your a lot smarter then me or i'm not at all smart...but i had trouble following it.

Well we're probably talking about length-modulated delays (which internally involves interpolation in a digital implementation, and variable sampling rate in a BBD).. kinda like chorus and flanger effects do.

[annode]

Hi mystran.
I do know what a bucket brigade is. It's an analog way of storing audio samples and passing them along in a time domain.(off the top of my head)
Digitally one way this is done is with shift registers. Not sure we are in the same ballpark.

I've had a close look at the morphing capabilities of chainer and i'm very disapointed. Like ew sez, it's morphing sliders can't be addressed.
I'll write/draw my own damn automation in cubase...if I learn what to write/draw. hehe

[mystran]

Hi mystran.
I do know what a bucket brigade is. It's an analog way of storing audio samples and passing them along in a time domain.(off the top of my head)
Digitally one way this is done is with shift registers. Not sure we are in the same ballpark.

I think so.

In computer memory it's generally implemented as a ringbuffer (a series of memory location and an index pointer that increments through the buffer and wraps from the end back to the beginning). Doesn't matter. All store discrete (in time) samples, in order to provide delay.

If you have a fixed samplerate (which usually makes sense in digital domain, and especially with software) then you can only change the delay by an integer number of sampling instants (by changing the number of samples stored, which is trivial in software where all memory is random access anyway... just add an variable offset when you read the samples from the memory). To get a non-integer delay (in samples) however, you need to interpolate between a delay of n samples, and a delay of n+1 samples.

Anyway, if you want to start with a given delay, and end up with another, without crossfading between two delay, then you need to be able to modulate (=smoothly vary) the delay length, and that means you need to interpolate, or it'll sound something between "awful" and "clicky" when it steps from one integer length to another. I think that was what the original ment with an interpolating delay..

[annode]

Mystran spoketh and he did say;

Anyway, if you want to start with a given delay, and end up with another, without crossfading between two delay, then you need to be able to modulate (=smoothly vary) the delay length, and that means you need to interpolate, or it'll sound something between "awful" and "clicky" when it steps from one integer length to another. I think that was what the original ment with an interpolating delay..

That seems to be the glitching I heard when morphing in chainer by dragging the a/b slider. I've heard this same thing with someother sample hold VST.

So this is a problem is it? I'm more of the off the shelf hardware guy. I don't know much about software.
Unless things have changed..the BBG chip was an analog chip used in devices like the memoryman delay. Is this term now used to describe moving data through memory? Pointers,registers,stacks LSB,MSB. I forgot all that stuff yrs ago . ha
Back to the vortex.

[mystran]

Unless things have changed..the BBG chip was an analog chip used in devices like the memoryman delay. Is this term now used to describe moving data through memory? Pointers,registers,stacks LSB,MSB. I forgot all that stuff yrs ago . ha
Back to the vortex.

Nah. When I said BBD I actually ment the analog device. Anyway, agree we're getting off-topic (oh I'm SO good in doing that).

[birrbits]

I guess one motivational question that hasn't been asked is....

How much would one pay for a vst emulation of a vortex (assuming its fairly accurate)?

How many people would actually be interested in such an emulation?

[annode]

I guess one motivational question that hasn't been asked is....

How much would one pay for a vst emulation of a vortex (assuming its fairly accurate)?

How many people would actually be interested in such an emulation?

I would have to hear it 1st, since I never demo'd a vortex.
That's of course a given to anyone who doesn't know what the vortex sounds like hands on. I came by to say this primarily;
- The ohmforce "ohmboyz" already has some good "automated" morphing features not to mention LFO->parameters. Whether it's morphing buttons can be cc# controlled in some way i'm not sure yet. This morphing appears to be between presets only and the time you set between morphs appears global. This could be improved on for sure. That would interest me. Although stacking a few ohm boyz might give you more "single parameter morph control". I guess it would depend on whether the morphs can be started from controller/DAW automation.

[MitchK1989]

ohmboyz will apparently be updated sooner or later, to a MELOHMAN version. That should allow all sorts of sequenced morphing delay time things.

[Cordelia]

I've never been a Lexicon fan, but I regretted not buying the Vortex years ago. I bought a crappy Lexicon LXP-15 instead. I don't know how much I'd pay for an emulation since so much is dependent on how poor I am any given month. But I would be seriously interested.

[dry bones]

When I look at the DSP layout in the Vortex owners manual it seems that it's not just parameter modulation going on. It seems like there also must be a good deal of crossfading between routing configurations. While this could be done in Reaktor I'm having a tough time figuring out how it could be done in Kore. Don't get me wrong, if it can be done I'd like to know1

That's the thing about the Vortex; it's not just the effects that morph, it's the whole routing, crossfading and signal path. That's what makes it unique.

[birrbits]

just a quick update for the heck of it and because I am excited (in a geeky way)

I have reworked my basic skeleton for the delay lines to take advantage of the packed format processing SM offers (now running 4 independent delay lines instead of just 2 and using 25% less cpu than before!)

More exciting, thru trial and error I think I've reverse engineered how the delay section morphs!

now all I have to do is program about a half dozen more esoteric effects (vortex effects are definitely all not run of the mill) and figure out how they morph...

at this rate another month or so to go.

[annode]

Go for it!

[Waker]

Bump...So how is the vortex doing?