Is Tracktion now an orphan?

[oxbee]

Taking any product to market involves grit, determination and a genuine commitment, not the sort of complacency that Tony/Mackie's answer reveals.

That's not a good statement. Mackie is not a software company (don't want to shout from the rooftops but it's exactly what I said some posts above). Their primary goal was the same as most of us here. They have probably found Tracktion to be a very accurate and ORIGINAL tool that would fit not only the simple users but also the users of the hardware they sell as Tracktion is packaged with some of their ORIGINAL tools. Probably they are not here as real competitors but more as a company offering something different with their own (easy to use) tool.

Also, Mackie has always been known as an inventive company. It's not only a marketing thing. They just create excellent products but with always an original touch.

I think they are more on the "if it ain't broken, don't change" thing that on the "let's update every months with fancy new features and bug fixes and because our business depends on that" like any software company would do...

[Spitfire31]

I think they are more on the "if it ain't broken, don't change" thing

Sigh.

The point is: at least for Mac users, Tracktion 3 is broken and has been since it was released.

/Joey

[UncleAge]

The reason software ONLY companies like Ableton or others like them have such a super active forum is just that, all they do is software. We don't have such a software centric focus, but that doesn't mean that the product is dead.

I'm trying to discern what he really meant here because I don't understand the logic. Because a company has its roots in hardware they are excused from participating at the same level of their competitors [who have their roots in software]?

Catch-up Mackie. And I hope they realise before its too late that this IS the way things will happen in the future because that's what the consumer wants. Resistance is futile. It doesn't matter where that forum is on the net, if there is a significant number of users [most of which usually praising the product and providing customer support to new users] Mackie needs to be there in some capacity and participate.

I see Beno from Cakewalk posting here [KVR]and on other forums. That left a positive impression on me about what they [Cakewalk] think about their current and prospective customers. I hope Mackie revisits that decision about how they will interact with THIS internet community.

[oxbee]

Because a company has its roots in hardware they are excused from participating at the same level of their competitors [who have their roots in software]

I think their primary goal was to provide a cheap and easy software along with their hardware solutions, not to enter the sequencer race. A new-comer like Tracktion would have needed far more originality to be a strong candidate. Just looking at its price, it just shows they wanted to issue a cheap and easy sequencer that does the job. And sorry to say -again-, but I think it does very well without any more update (and I won't say that if it was only for me).

[aMUSEd]

Because a company has its roots in hardware they are excused from participating at the same level of their competitors [who have their roots in software]

I think their primary goal was to provide a cheap and easy software along with their hardware solutions, not to enter the sequencer race. A new-comer like Tracktion would have needed far more originality to be a strong candidate. Just looking at its price, it just shows they wanted to issue a cheap and easy sequencer that does the job.

Therein lies the problem. Tracktion was a major innovation in sequencer design and really needed an investor that was interested in it as a sequencer, not just as a way to sell more hardware. Tracktion has been sadly neglected for this reason. If Mackie really aren't interested in developing it as a sequencer and entering into competition in a serious way with other sequencers then they should get out of the way and let someone better motivated take it over.

[headquest]

Therein lies the problem. Tracktion was a major innovation in sequencer design and really needed an investor that was interested in it as a sequencer, not just as a way to sell more hardware. Tracktion has been sadly neglected for this reason. If Mackie really aren't interested in developing it as a sequencer and entering into competition in a serious way with other sequencers then they should get out of the way and let someone better motivated take it over.

+1

Spot on

[rockstar_not]

I see Beno from Cakewalk posting here [KVR]and on other forums. That left a positive impression on me about what they [Cakewalk] think about their current and prospective customers. I hope Mackie revisits that decision about how they will interact with THIS internet community.

Wait a minute - are you saying that Beno has changed companies to Cakewalk?

[headquest]

I think he means "Brandon" from Cakewalk, who recently posted here on KVR in a thread speculating about the forthcoming Sonar 8, and who regularly posts on the Cakewalk forum of course (as do several Cakewalk people). Alex from Cakewalk has also posted here on KVR several times.

[UncleAge]

I see Beno from Cakewalk posting here [KVR]and on other forums. That left a positive impression on me about what they [Cakewalk] think about their current and prospective customers. I hope Mackie revisits that decision about how they will interact with THIS internet community.

Wait a minute - are you saying that Beno has changed companies to Cakewalk?

Yep, pre-coffee mistake, I meant Brandon from Cakewalk.

[UncleAge]

And sorry to say -again-, but I think it does very well without any more update (and I won't say that if it was only for me).

No need to apologize, its a good app, no doubt. Truth be told though, everyone has their own small list of what would make their favorite program "just right" for them. However with T3 there are some small things that I think we all would agree, more or less, need to be fixed before the program is left "as-is". (stability, first note problem, efficient cpu use, blah-blah). Its the hope that these things get fixed that keeps me hanging around and wondering whether they are coming down the pike. A newsletter, forum post or development blog would provide that "security blanket" effect that I think is missing.

[headquest]

I would say that knowing future OS upgrades will be supported etc is also very important. Although I use other programmes as well/instead, I have still not jumped onto an alternative linear sequencer programme (in spite of trying out Reaper, Sonar, and considering Cubase, Pro Tools)... Tracktion is superb. But... to stay interested now I need to know whether Tracktion has a future or not. Otherwise it is really time to make that final jump and decide which way to go...

[valley]

[

Catch-up Mackie. And I hope they realise before its too late that this IS the way things will happen in the future because that's what the consumer wants. Resistance is futile. It doesn't matter where that forum is on the net, if there is a significant number of users [most of which usually praising the product and providing customer support to new users] Mackie needs to be there in some capacity and participate.

That level of support is hugely expensive though. Whilst I'm somewhat conflicted about Tony's reply[1], I do actually see where Mackie is coming from on this. There's a huge difference between a small market $200 package, and a large market $600 application. To have someone semi-permanently monitor these forums and provide support/customer ego massaging will cost Mackie upwards of a 40K a year. By the time you've factored in health care, payroll taxes etc, in truth they're probably in for 80K. That's before training costs for the support guy, and time spent liaising with senior staff members when a thread like this one gets going. So even if T had half of this guy's time, that's still a serious expense to Mackie, and for $200 you're just not getting that kind of service. Companies like Steinberg are in a different market. They charge a lot more, they can make a lot of money from value added services (high dollar support accounts etc) and that gives them a little extra leeway.

My gut feeling is inline with what another poster said earlier in this thread: right now Mackie are very distracted and the they are probably stretched a little thin. That's bad for them, and bad for us, and may well mean that T is in trouble - even if it is still a going concern in their mind, the market could easily evaporate while their attention is diverted. Either way, nothing has changed since last week. A front line guy posts an off the cuff, and most likely unsanctioned reply to a customer query, and most smart people just move right on. Those people on the Mac should be carpet bombing Mackie with support questions every freaking day until the issue gets some attention. Everyone else is either enjoying T for the reasons they bought it in the first place, or moving onto another host because at the end of the day, you use the best tool for the job at hand today. For some that is, and will continue to be Tracktion, for others, well there's a large healthy market out there.




[1] The first rule of call-centers is: "stick to the goddamn script, monkey." As a customer though I resent being tied down to a moronic script that is several levels of clue beneath my problem, and my own grasp of the problem. So, I appreciate Mackie allowing their staff to ad-lib, but I also think someone needs to whack Tony over the head with the big book of scripts.

[valley]

I would say that knowing future OS upgrades will be supported etc is also very important.

In the same way that it's important to know which horse to bet on before the starting gun fires, yes. You'll never know this though. Any sequencer can, for whatever reason, die. Logic abruptly went OSX only. Cubase VST, was reincarnated as Cubase SX, complete with missing features, and Musys just vanished.

Even when hosts do live on, the process of upgrades can quickly move them into a territory that is no longer desirable to you as a user, or into a price point that no longer matches your budget. Hell, a lot of people feel that T3 was an upgrade to far anyway. It costs more, and to some, is more cluttered. How does FL Studio relate to the small lightweight beat maker that was Fruity 2? At any point, for any reason, the upgrade path to your host of choice may cease to be affordable, palatable, or available. That's life. If you can't face that, you need to quit upgrading your OS/hardware, or you need to go the hardware only route, and hope that when your box of choice dies, you can still buy a replacement.

Sure some horses are better bets than others, but it always boils down to 'you pays your money, you takes your chance.'

[oxbee]

Word.
Valley, we can close that thread now

[metamorphosis]

I believe the point some made about using old sequencers (e.g atari) is exceptionally valid in this case. Everybody wants their sequencer to fit like a glove. What's so fascinating about tracktion is that it seems to, to so many people, and when these people find something that doesn't gel well, it's far more uncomfortable than the exact same scenario in something like cubase, which is already pretty uncomfortable and un-streamlined overall. ie. by contrast problems in tracktion feel bigger than problems in most sequencers, because most of tracktion is damn good, streamlined, intuitive.

Truth is though, if you get used to something, there's no point upgrading unless you need to. Mac folk I can understand here, they want a working version, full-stop, but PC-people can just stick with T1 or T2 - if they don't need dual-core support. Anything you have, you can make music on - despite (and often, due to) whatever technical limitations your platform imposes on you.

Me, I'm happy with T1 and increasingly T2. I'll upgrade to 3 if I have to for dual-core at some point, but I certainly don't need to. My work doesn't require it, nor does my play.