MU.LAB 2 Test F

[tomica]

heres a tiny feature request
u know how when u wanna create a new sequence
u use the pen tool to draw a rectangular area and then a menu pops up.
in this menu, u can select any sequence already created, or create a new sequence.
well
wouldnt it be neat if u could have the option to load a previously saved sequence directly from this menu?

so the menu would look like this:

created seq 1
created seq 2
created seq 3
...
_____________
new sequence
load sequence

[MuTools]

Good suggestion.

For now: I'm sure you know 'Load Sequence' is in the Sequence context menu (right-click sequence part), so it only takes 1 extra step.

But again, i agree it would be nice to have Load Sequence immediately available when you draw a new sequence part.

Will do.

[tomica]

yeah i know how it works but i load sequences real often coz i first make rough sketches of music ideas in one project and then when i wanna brush up the song and make the final version, i create a new project and load stuff up (i know i could use different compositions in the same project but this somehow feels safer lol). so this one step less would be real nice.

anyway glad u agree.

[MuTools]

Yeah, i sure agree.

Note that this won't yet be for the 2.0 release as that one is finalized feature-wise.

But it will certainly come thru in a next version.

[pljones]

Turning MIDI into audio, well that's in fact what a synth does.
Turning audio into MIDI, well a simple example of that is an envelope follower. But of course it could also be a more complex picth-to-note analyzer.
Anyway, i know what you're dreaming/thinking of. That might be the future.

Yes, it's these "adaptor" modules that I'm imagining making the signal paths "pluggable": MIDI to audio gets a Synthia with some default settings; audio to MIDI... well, yes, not there but a magic built-in

At the other hand, with MU.LAB 2.0 we have some realized dreams today.
Lets enjoy!

Indeed! I'm way behind in exploring 2.0's features, too!

[Oxygenee]

Hi!

Sorry for posting for the old version, I will try the new version soon!

I realized that MIDI files exported with this (F) version of Mulab on OSX are not generally compatible: Only Quicktime plays them!

Also, when enabling a MIDI-port in Midi-Setup, it would be nice to have that new port available as a target immediately as well instead of having to add it to the Modular Plug Area first.

Under circumstances I cannot recover, the List All Inputs command when clicking on a Rack will crash MuLab.

Finally: Is there a way to have more control over the slides I create in values like Pitch-Bend within the sequence editor? - I would like to make sweeps with various curves intersecting at certain (exactly definable) points (kind of like a multi-stage-envelope)! The way it works now, I cannot easily find the perfect (exact) pitch (editing pitch bend values) .
By the way, would it be possible to edit all those other V2-values (pitch bend etc.) in list editor as well ?


Thanks, Jo!

[MuTools]

I realized that MIDI files exported with this (F) version of Mulab on OSX are not generally compatible: Only Quicktime plays them!

I'm sure you know a MIDI file does not contain any sound, so you need some sound engine to turn the MIDI file notes into real sound.

Besides this, which app is giving an error when loading a MU.LAB exported MIDI file?

Also, when enabling a MIDI-port in Midi-Setup, it would be nice to have that new port available as a target immediately as well instead of having to add it to the Modular Plug Area first.

That's true. That's on the whishlist for a future version.

Under circumstances I cannot recover, the List All Inputs command when clicking on a Rack will crash MuLab.

Can you find a repeatable pattern when such crash occurs?

Finally: Is there a way to have more control over the slides I create in values like Pitch-Bend within the sequence editor?

Not yet in that editor itself.

But you can edit all values in the list editor!

By the way, would it be possible to edit all those other V2-values (pitch bend etc.) in list editor as well ?

It is possible!

[Oxygenee]

I realized that MIDI files exported with this (F) version of Mulab on OSX are not generally compatible: Only Quicktime plays them!

I'm sure you know a MIDI file does not contain any sound, so you need some sound engine to turn the MIDI file notes into real sound.

Besides this, which app is giving an error when loading a MU.LAB exported MIDI file?

Well, I have created a project that doesn't let me export valid MIDI files (Aria Maestosa can't load it and Reaper only shows the first note ... ). - I just found out that with new musessions, this error doesn't occur.

Under circumstances I cannot recover, the List All Inputs command when clicking on a Rack will crash MuLab.

Can you find a repeatable pattern when such crash occurs?

It seems that only the project I mentioned (that doesn't let me export valid MIDI files ) shows the behaviour that when I right-click on the Rack E (which I created) and choose 'List all inputs' right after start, it crashes each time! - But new musessions seem to be OK !

Finally: Is there a way to have more control over the slides I create in values like Pitch-Bend within the sequence editor?

Not yet in that editor itself.

But you can edit all values in the list editor!

What about introducing control points like in ADSRs (only without a limit on the number of control points)?

By the way, would it be possible to edit all those other V2-values (pitch bend etc.) in list editor as well ?

It is possible!

Ah, now I see: Pitch Bend is divided into several lines in the list editor! - Sorry I didn't recognize this at first!
The values I see there seem to correspond to the UP/DOWN position of the Pitch-Wheel on a keyboard. But, I know that on a keyboard, you can adjust the pitch wheel range (1 Octave OR 2 Semi-tones OR 4 Octaves or whatever ... ) - how can I specify the pitch bend range in MuLab (so that I know that a pitch value of, say '1' corresponds to 1 Octave up-shift OR 2 Semi-tones upshift ... )?

I will send you a copy of my problematic musession!


P.S.: When I create a chord in the sequence editor, then I can stretch the whole chord by extending it from the right side of a note (a box is asking me whether I want to stretch absolute, relative, etc. ... ). But when I extend (while the whole chord is selected) a note of the chord to the left, only one note is stretched, the other notes remain unchanged (no box appears).
Is that behaviour supposed to be?


See you!

[MuTools]

Well, I have created a project that doesn't let me export valid MIDI files (Aria Maestosa can't load it and Reaper only shows the first note ... ). - I just found out that with new musessions, this error doesn't occur.

It seems that only the project I mentioned shows the behaviour that when I right-click on the Rack E (which I created) and choose 'List all inputs' right after start, it crashes each time!

Please email me this musession!

What about introducing control points like in ADSRs (only without a limit on the number of control points)?

That's on the whishlist for a future version

But, I know that on a keyboard, you can adjust the pitch wheel range (1 Octave OR 2 Semi-tones OR 4 Octaves or whatever ... ) - how can I specify the pitch bend range in MuLab (so that I know that a pitch value of, say '1' corresponds to 1 Octave up-shift OR 2 Semi-tones upshift ... )?

In the host, pitchbend events can have value between -100% to 100%, but they're always relative. It depends on the settings on your synth how much pitchbend will be applied.

So if you have a pitchbend event with value -50% and your synth's pb range = 1 octave, then it will bend the notes half an octave down, i.e. -600 cents.

I will send you a copy of my problematic musession!

Yes please!

When I create a chord in the sequence editor, then I can stretch the whole chord by extending it from the right side of a note (a box is asking me whether I want to stretch absolute, relative, etc. ... ). But when I extend (while the whole chord is selected) a note of the chord to the left, only one note is stretched, the other notes remain unchanged (no box appears).
Is that behaviour supposed to be?

It's 'intended' at this point, but i agree it's not consequent.

Added a note on the whishlist.

[MuTools]

Well, I have created a project that doesn't let me export valid MIDI files (Aria Maestosa can't load it and Reaper only shows the first note ... ). - I just found out that with new musessions, this error doesn't occur.

Thanks for the musession.

In that musession, all tracks are muted, which means MIDI export will contain no notes!

MIDI Export uses the WYHIWYG principle.

Under circumstances I cannot recover, the List All Inputs command when clicking on a Rack will crash MuLab.

Indeed a bug

Please be careful with the List All Inputs function until the next release; i'll quick fix this.

[robenestobenz]

I'm actually looking for an alternative to my main host (which seems to be on some disappointingly bizarre development path) at the moment, so I tried this latest release of Mu Lab. It's got a lot of good stuff and even more potential. I'm wavering between it and Reaper at the moment - MU Lab's got a lot more of the unusual, innovative and flexible stuff that I love, but Reaper does seem a bit more mature at this point and through this more suited to my workflow.

Stuff I really like:

- Brilliantly flexible design
- The modular editors are really innovative in the way they are so integrated. I

love the way even the top-level project objects are contained in this manner.
- Quite straightforward to get going in.
- MIDI learn is nicely done
- Stable! I've only had one crash in my messing about with it, and it wasn't

reproducible (plugin at fault, I think)
- The hidden window bar is truly a bit of workflow genius
- Mux. MUX! Musynth too.
- Great looking interface, and well implemented skinning support

Some thoughts and suggestions.

1. Menus. The program's quite talkative. For example, the way it always asks you if you are sure you want to delete something. I realise it has to always ask you because there's no undo / redo for everything at the moment, but at least making the menus responsive to the "enter" key and the arrow keys would speed things up for the time being.

2. Zoom -- minor issue, but the vertical zoom doesn't home to where the cursor is, like with the horizontal zoom. This is true both for the track view and the part editor views.

3. Can you completely delete any automation you've created? I.e., something like just right click + delete in the content section of the part editor to completely remove parameter automation or a certain CC.

4. On the subject of automation, I can't seem to get automating a rack or rack element to work via CC data in a part targeting it. For example, I have a part going to the hi-hat rack. The notes are playing fine. I've also drawn in some CC29 automation info in the same part, and set up the CC29 in the MIDI map of the MuSynth instance in the hi-hat rack to modify an envelope param. Nothing. Same deal if I try and automate panning in the rack. Am I missing something fundamental here?

5. Copying / pasting automation seems a bit off -- when pasted it doesn't appear at the point you last clicked or relative to the part start or anything, but instead in the absolute position on the timeline that you copied it from. Any easy way round this?

6. Is there any way to automatically group VST/is by their folders on import? They're already neatly categorised on my hard drive, and it was pretty tiresome the first time I did it.

7. A small indicator for whether auto scroll is currently on or not would be nice. Sometimes I toggle it to the wrong mode accidentally.

8. The "modify" command is a brilliant bit of work, I reckon. Any plans on adding the ability to enter a few simple conditions to filter what data is operated on? Also, as for the limit command, how about a relative option? I.e. so you could compress data ranging from 0-127 to 30-60, let's say, where 64 in the former would translate to roughly 45 in the latter.

9. Also on the modify command, when I use it on a sequence in the object manager which I currently have open with a few selected notes, the command I use only effects those selected notes (i.e. just the same as if I'd done it from the sequence editor context menu). This might be intentional, but it seems unusual behaviour for a high-level editor like the object manager.

10. Is there any snap to grid or grid resolution options to speak of? Due to my piss poor percussive performance, I tend to painstakingly mouse in a lot of my drums, and being able to do small timing variations are essential for this.

11. Are customizable shortcuts planned at any point? Or just more shortcuts in general? E.g. for the recording types and stuff. I find having to use the mouse slows me down a lot.

12. MIDI control support for the transport. This is essential for me, anyway, 'cause I never seem to be able to arrange the room with everything in reach from the PC.

13. In the MPA, it'd be cool if when you dragged a connection over a port, the port tooltip pops up instantly to tell you what it is. I keep forgetting what they are you see, and then I have to drop the connection, hover the mouse, and redrag the connection.

14. Is there any way to select which audio inputs go into an audio input component in the MPA (or to a track)? It keeps grouping my mono ins, making it impossible to record audio.

15. When dragging multiple notes, it'd be cool if instead of using the menu to select mode, you could use Drag / CTRL+Drag / Shift+Drag / Ctrl+Shift+Drag for each of the modes. Cancel would be ctrl+z in this case.

If you're lucky there's something useful or that hasn't been answered for amongst all this jibber jabber. If not, I'm sorry. Just my thoughts as I go along, there'll be more.

Thanks for the host!

[Oxygenee]

Well, I have created a project that doesn't let me export valid MIDI files (Aria Maestosa can't load it and Reaper only shows the first note ... ). - I just found out that with new musessions, this error doesn't occur.

Thanks for the musession.

In that musession, all tracks are muted, which means MIDI export will contain no notes!

MIDI Export uses the WYHIWYG principle.

Well, the export in this musession also fails to produce a valid MIDI file if I unmute a track containing MIDI data.

[MuTools]

Robenestobenz, soon i'll reply to your post in detail.

[MuTools]

Well, the export in this musession also fails to produce a valid MIDI file if I unmute a track containing MIDI data.

I unmuted the second track of the session you sent me, exported that as a midi file, and re-imported that in mulab. Looked fine to me.

Could you please give me more details where it goes wrong?

[MuTools]

Menus. The program's quite talkative. For example, the way it always asks you if you are sure you want to delete something. I realise it has to always ask you because there's no undo / redo for everything at the moment, but at least making the menus responsive to the "enter" key and the arrow keys would speed things up for the time being.

Well, the menus do respond to the keyboard: Type the first character(s) of the option.

This is as well for the alert boxes as for the menus!

Zoom -- minor issue, but the vertical zoom doesn't home to where the cursor is, like with the horizontal zoom. This is true both for the track view and the part editor views.

True. To be improved.

Can you completely delete any automation you've created? I.e., something like just right click + delete in the content section of the part editor to completely remove parameter automation or a certain CC.

Use "Select All" + [Delete] key

"Select All" can be done via the context menu or via [Ctrl]+A on Windows or [Apple]+A on OSX.

On the subject of automation, I can't seem to get automating a rack or rack element to work via CC data in a part targeting it.
For example, I have a part going to the hi-hat rack. The notes are playing fine.
I've also drawn in some CC29 automation info in the same part, and set up the CC29 in the MIDI map of the MuSynth instance in the hi-hat rack to modify an envelope param. Nothing. Same deal if I try and automate panning in the rack. Am I missing something fundamental here?

I agree this might be a bit confusing but:

If you want to automate a MU.LAB plugin parameter, then automate the MU.LAB plugin parameter itself, not a MIDI controller that is mapped to it, because MIDI controllers mappings are only used for realtime MIDI Controller to parameter mapping!

You will notice that if you have a MIDI controller mapped to a MU.LAB plugin parameter, and you record such MIDI controller, then the resulting recording contains the parameter events, not the controller events!

Also note that if you want to draw a new automation curve for a MU.LAB plugin parameter, then it will be necessary to target that MU.LAB plugin because otherwise you won't see the available parameters in the gui.

Last but not least: Regarding VST plugins: If the MIDI controller to parameter mapping is done in MU.LAB, then it works the same as above. If the MIDI controller to parameter mapping is done in the VST plugin itself, then you can draw/record the controller itself; it will be translated as it arrives in the vst plugin.

Now i have a question for you: How can i make clear to users that MU.LAB's "Map MIDI Controller" is only used for realtime input controller events, not for sequenced controller events?

Copying / pasting automation seems a bit off -- when pasted it doesn't appear at the point you last clicked or relative to the part start or anything, but instead in the absolute position on the timeline that you copied it from. Any easy way round this?

When pasting events, they're pasted at the current play position.

I just noticed that in the composer, it's the same, but a dialog box appears where you can edit the paste position, so that's more explicit.

(To do: Whatever method is used, it should be the same in the composer and sequence editor)

Is the dialog-way better?

How would you like it to be?

Is there any way to automatically group VST/is by their folders on import? They're already neatly categorised on my hard drive, and it was pretty tiresome the first time I did it.

I'm sure you know you can group plugins.

But not yet automatically by their folder.

The problem with vst folders is that many/most vst plugins have their own folder, containing the plugin itself, some patch files, docs, graphic resources etc...

So then every plugin comes in its own group, which is nonsense, right?

How do you see this?

The "modify" command is a brilliant bit of work, I reckon.
Any plans on adding the ability to enter a few simple conditions to filter what data is operated on?

Yes, a "Logical Selector" is already being constructed

Also, as for the limit command, how about a relative option? I.e. so you could compress data ranging from 0-127 to 30-60, let's say, where 64 in the former would translate to roughly 45 in the latter.

Yes, sounds great, added on the whishlist.

Also on the modify command, when I use it on a sequence in the object manager which I currently have open with a few selected notes, the command I use only effects those selected notes (i.e. just the same as if I'd done it from the sequence editor context menu). This might be intentional, but it seems unusual behaviour for a high-level editor like the object manager.

I agree, should work on all events when applied from the object manager.

To be tuned...

Is there any snap to grid or grid resolution options to speak of? Due to my piss poor percussive performance, I tend to painstakingly mouse in a lot of my drums, and being able to do small timing variations are essential for this.

If you want recorded events to be autoquantized => right-click Record button and choose a grid.

If you want to change the editing grid in composer or sequence editor: right-click the editor background -> Edit -> Select Grid

Does this answer your question?

Are customizable shortcuts planned at any point? Or just more shortcuts in general? E.g. for the recording types and stuff. I find having to use the mouse slows me down a lot.

Yes, definitely.

The main reason why it's not yet in there is because i'm constructing an advanced extensive system that will make a lot possible.

Don't want to invest precious dev-time in an intermediate system meanwhile.

MIDI control support for the transport. This is essential for me, anyway, 'cause I never seem to be able to arrange the room with everything in reach from the PC.

Is related to the previous question

Is there any way to select which audio inputs go into an audio input component in the MPA (or to a track)? It keeps grouping my mono ins, making it impossible to record audio.

Not sure if i fully understand but: Right-click the record button, there you can choose from which inputs you want to record from.

If this doesn't answer your question, please elaborate.

When dragging multiple notes, it'd be cool if instead of using the menu to select mode, you could use Drag / CTRL+Drag / Shift+Drag / Ctrl+Shift+Drag for each of the modes. Cancel would be ctrl+z in this case.

Sorry, i'm not sure which 'modes' you mean?

If you're lucky there's something useful or that hasn't been answered for amongst all this jibber jabber. If not, I'm sorry. Just my thoughts as I go along, there'll be more.

Great feedback, thanks!