KVR Audio

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:27 am

wesleymayhem wrote:I'm very excited about being able to use two different plug-ins... When do you think that might be available??? Thanks.

I thought it over. Just sent out the versions working for two different plugins to anyone donated.

Christian

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:51 am

Cool, I'm off to check my email then.

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:05 am

A funny request: stereo mode (not left/right. just stereo, or maybe stereo/stereo with on/off switch for each)

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:15 am

Shy wrote:A funny request: stereo mode (not left/right. just stereo, or maybe stereo/stereo with on/off switch for each)

Could you explain this further?
Right now there is:

Left/Right: Copy left channel to both stereo channels and process by first plugin. Then copy the right channel to both stereo channels and process by the second plugin. After that copy back the left channel from the first plugin back to the left output and the left channel of the second plugin to the right channel. This is necessary since some mono plugins are only using the first channel even for stereo signals

Serial: Process the first plugin in stereo and then chain it to the second plugin and process it in stereo.

With one of the next releases I will also offere an LFO-mode, roughly based on bmanics idea. It will use an LFO to overblend the output of both plugins.

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:42 am

Sorry, I wrote too quickly. I mean the option of simply one regular stereo output, in order to listen just to that instance, not in serial, or to simply just apply oversampling. And in Split mode for example, ability to mute the low or high section. Could also be useful in M/S and Dyn. Actually, a separate volume control for each section could also be useful, but maybe that's a little too much.

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:15 pm

Cool now I have to find some combos. So far I have compressor/limiter combos, and an Aradaz amp/Betabugs Feedbug combo.

I should get some more betabugs because most of what I have is se/sm.

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:57 pm

small update:

- butterworth filter was sometimes not working correctly, this was rare, but affected everything, splitting and oversampling - fixed now
- new mode: LFO, using an LFO to blend over between both instances of the plugin
- new mode: Spin, which - in case of a stereo plugin - it virtually spins around the 4 inputs having the one instance in the front of and the other behind the listener
- volume added (but not adjustable at the moment)
- several minor bugfixes

I'll be off for the weekend now,

Christian

aud.io · Post by **aud.io** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:20 pm

Christian, while you're at it, how do you like the idea of an "any eq linearizer" utilizing that reverse treatment trick? It would have to introduce latency of course but it would be very cool nevertheless.

Christian Budde · Post by **Christian Budde** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:25 pm

aud.io wrote:Christian, while you're at it, how do you like the idea of an "any eq linearizer" utilizing that reverse treatment trick? It would have to introduce latency of course but it would be very cool nevertheless.

Well, at the moment I like the fact, that Electri-Q is one of the only EQ, that has this feature...

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:59 pm

Splitting RS-Met pitch shifter makes some killer chorusing.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:55 pm

Christian Budde wrote:
bmanic wrote:Anyhow, perhaps more people will now warm up to the idea of merged plugins, aka virtual racks. I've been trying to get people/developers warmed up to this kind of idea for quite a long time already, although my vision has been a bit more ambitious (internal VST parameter modulators like LFO's, Envelopes, step sequencers, sample triggers etc).

Now imagine all this stuff with multiple VSTi synths/samplers + VST effects, all internally possible to be modulated by LFO, envelopes etc. This would also provide fast preset loading and an excellent opportunity for 3rd party professional patch programmers to create amazing "effect rack banks" for the masses.
It's probably really a bit ambitious, since with the current VST architecture this would mean to process the hosted VST plugins sample by sample (to have an accurate automation). Depending on the plugin hosted, this might lead to a huge overhead. The mda plugins for example create a copy of the initial states before entering a more effective loop for each sample. After that the states are stored back. While this is a good strategy for blocks, it is probably a lot overhead sample based processing. Also some plugins might fail with this strategy entirely, since they rely on SSE code (using 4 samples at one time). It might work, but increase the CPU consumption by a factor of 4.

Still, with all these issues I think it is doable, but at least not for me. You also have to face several compatibility problems, since you do not only have to ensure the created plugins work in every host, but also to work with every plugin. I mean basically it's possible this way to help plugins, which might not work in one host, that they do after the treatment, but it is more likely the opposite happening.

Just some thoughts about this. Anyway I hope that this opens the world a little bit towards your idea. I would be glad to see something like this in the future...

Kind regards,

Christian

Actually, I wouldn't do it the way you do with a plugin splitter/merger. I'd simply create a plugin host like EnergyXT/FL Studio that itself is a VSTi if so desired. However, it all comes down to how you treat the plugin interface and in my opinion, the most important part, how quickly you can make it switch presets (somekind of pre-loading of plugins is needed for a live set where setups use different plugins) on the fly without any glitches. This is still one of the advantages of some hardware synths and vital for live playing.

Basically Native Instruments KORE is kind of what I'm envisioning but it's much too bloated somehow. It's not snappy enough and their marketing model is way different from what I was thinking. My idea would be to release a fully functioning freeware platform that is sleek, fast and very easy to use. Kind of like a VSTi/VST effects rompler where people who have bought the full version can create the content. This would allow the company who creates the plugin itself to get some revenues AND it would allow 3rd party talented preset programmers to have a common platform that can do wicked things, only limited by the license agreements of various plugins. For instance, the basic package could come bundled with all the MDA effects plugins (if the freeware license allows this) and some basic freeware synthesizers.

Even this very simple combination of some basic freeware can, if given enough modulation and routing possibilities, create some monstrous sounds (I've learned that modulation is the key to complexity, this is why the Kurzweil K2xxx series is still king when it comes to expressiveness and sheer complexity of sounds created from single cycle waveforms. It's insane what it can do).

The best part is that the common user would never have to even know why or how these sounds are created. He only needs to have the basic plugins installed on his computer and the "preset monster system plugin host thing".

Now add to this mess specific popular commercial effects/synths/samplers etc and the combination possibilities are endless.

Cheers!
bManic

David Else · Post by **David Else** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:04 am

THANK YOU!!

I am off to try this now. The idea of making any compressor multiband is a revolution.

Is it possible you could give releases a version no.? It would be great to know i am using the latest version in the future.

Maybe a linear phase crossover in the future? if you think that would be a good idea.

keep up the amazing work!

Optomadic · Post by **Optomadic** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:19 am

Very intriguing idea. Cant wait to check it out.

Thanks Christian

David Else · Post by **David Else** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:43 pm

It would be REALLY nice if there was some kind of a bypass or thru for each plugin since not all plugs have a bypass/thru mode. seems like it would cut out half the cpu if for instance i just wanted to process the side signal and not the mid. I don't know if this is possible or even something you'd consider implementing but just thought i would mention it.

I really hope this can be done. If i want to compress the bass with one version of the plugin, and there is no bypass, then i have to run the high end into the compressor as well. On some plugins this means all sorts of annoying fiddling to avoid the high end getting compressed too, and on some others its impossible to avoid compression.

On one plugin the meters didn't diplay unless i was adjusting a control and had the mouse button pressed. They just stayed static when the plugin was not being adjusted.

All the best, thanks again for this excellent work.

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:22 pm

Sorry for making such a predictable post, but will we ever see an OS X version of this?

Split Plugin Creator