New IK Product Version 3!!!!!

[lotus2035]

GB!! GB!!

Let's discuss that one in 2012 ok? I doubt that's gonna happen any time soon.

So theres a slim chance??!! woohoo!!!

[grymmjack]

4 years for a group buy. lol. that's a bit much of a wait! dont understand this because there have been group buys for stuff that didn't even exist - AT JimiHendrix, AT Metal, etc, what makes Tracks3 different?

[Squids]

4 years for a group buy. lol. that's a bit much of a wait! dont understand this because there have been group buys for stuff that didn't even exist - AT JimiHendrix, AT Metal, etc, what makes Tracks3 different?

We got lucky with Hendrix and Metal being able to do a group buy. I wouldn't expect that to be the norm now. The norm is usually that a product is up for potential group buy after it has been out for a while and is maybe time to be blown out (perhaps before a new version comes... like T-RackS the plug-in has been for $99 the last few months). A product has to be out for a while and given a chance to sell through retailers before you go berzerk with a group buy typically. A few exceptions have been made mostly because of clever timing with promos. Again, we got lucky.

[Teksonik]

Squids, I looked at the IK site but didn't find an answer. What are the improvements to the original 4 T-Racks plugins? I know they have a new GUI but what's new under the hood?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Again, as I explained, the crossgrade is only to the DELUXE version. The deluxe version has extra things you never had before. They cost money. They ONLY cost you at MOST $299.

I hate how this comes up everytime IK updates a product but...


[EDITED TO USE MSRP PRICES]:

Total amount [MSRP] spent by people who are upgrading a previous copy of T-Racks:

$399.99 (T-Racks VST MSRP)
$299.99 (T-Racks 3 Crossgrade Price)
_______
$699.99


Total amount [MSRP] spent by people who are crossgrading from another IK product:

$ 99.99 (Amplitube 2 Live MSRP - qualifies for crossgrade)
$299.99 (T-Racks 3 Crossgrade Price)
_______
$399.99 <- Much more reasonable


That's a $300.00 difference in amount spent!


That's the point Compyfox and I are making. To offer a crossgrade discount is cool (even if the crossgrade would only be $50 off), but there should be a sweeter path for previous owners than just anyone who has something registered with IK.

In the way things are currently run, people who give IK the MOST amount of money (i.e. buying the full blown versions of new products at full price), see no better discount than those who support IK to a lesser extent (i.e. buying clearance items, or LE versions).

Let me just add: I'm not ruling out getting T-Racks 3, the policy just rubs me the wrong way.

[Squids]

What about the people who don't want to crossgrade to another product, but rather stay on the path of the software you already use?

I mean, it was cool to crossgrade from AT2Duo to ARC, but I'd see this one as rare occasion, like it happened for me from crossgrading from Siedlaczek CCC to Kontakt 2.

Why not have an upgrade option "internally", via IKM directly - upgrade deal mails or something. Like I said... almost every firm does it. Generousity with the crossgrade offer or not (which is cool for some people), but I really only want to "upgrade", nothing more. And for this, I think Funkybot's Evil Twin (fake) pricings are indeed a starting point. I'd go lower however.



EDIT:
The URS native bundles have Fairchild and Pultec character, which are cheaper or around the same price. And I have GearBox, which has NEVE and SSL EQs and still paid around 200USD (additional to the hardware like 3 years ago, I was among those who got it before all the deals available now).

I'm not disregarding that there're new plugins in the pack, or a "chainer" (which seems to be standard now), but it's still steep if you just want to "upgrade" and T-Racks cost itself about the same new (299USD), and a crossgrade to the normal version, just with a new engine and the chainer 199USD.

That's not really motivating to me and I have to agree with Evil Twin on one end or another.

Like I said, just my 2c

URS seems cool although their bundles range from $750 to $2,000 from looking at some URS dealers.

Anyway, even if there were other things you could get for the same price... okay, there are options! Why would you get this one? Easy. Because it's also going to SOUND great. Sure, you don't know that yet. I do because I already have it and I KNOW it sounds great. The URS stuff probably does too though and look so does Waves and UAD. Some really great things on the market. One thing about the IK one though, and there's a bit about this in the details pages but probably more will be explained over time about it is that there were similar techniques used to get MORE than just your typical "model of the schematics" or "EQ/Tonal quality matching" - which are good but there's sometimes that missing element of "animation" in the way it behaves or the harmonics. AmpliTube 2 did this vs. AmpliTube 1 and it made a huge difference. So, I think that is playing a part in why it sounds so good. I think this is the best Fairchild emulation made so far (for any amount of money). But that's just my opinion so far. I know a LOT of engineers that will want TR3 and I will be very curious to hear what they have to say... although I have a feeling they'll love it. And that's for any price. One engineer called TODAY to pre-order it and he said "I'll gladly pay $299 JUST for the Fairchild alone. How SOON can I get it????"

So, there you have it. If you want the "upgrade" from your T-RackS then that's really T-RackS Standard and you get some of the extra functionality, bells and whistles etc of that. However, if you want the ADDITIONAL effects then that is like buying a whole other plug-in (or suite of plug-ins rather). It's a reasonable price for what you get so in my opinion there's really no ROOM to complain.

In other words, this:

IF YOU WANT A FAIRCHILD, PULTEC, BRICKWALL LIMITER, DELUXE PARAMETRIC EQ ALA GML FOR ONLY $299 THEN GET THE DELUXE TR3 CROSSGRADE!!!!

That is as long as you at least own one IK product (TRackS or other). If you don't already own an IK product then it's only a hundred bucks more... the same hundred bucks it would cost to get the previous T-RackS with its 5 classic fx anyway. See how it all makes sense?

If the answer is yes then great! If the answer is no then... IMO it's your loss. To me this is a must have for any studio. A staple piece regardless of what else you have. Why? Because it is more than just those delish models. It is a swiss army knife bag of tricks and no DOUBT it will come in real handy to anyone producing in their virtual studio no matter what style of music.

[Squids]

In the way things are currently run, people who give IK the MOST amount of money (i.e. buying the full blown versions of new products at full price), see no better discount than those who support IK to a lesser extent (i.e. buying clearance items, or LE versions).

Here's where you're wrong. Who said you are GIVING anyone money? You are BUYING something. If you bought TRackS and have enjoyed it for years vs. the guy who bought SampleTank LE and enjoyed it for five minutes and you both qualify for the same discount then:

1. You paid for a more elaborate product that you've been enjoying and that other person has not. That's the difference in value right there.

2. What difference does it make that the next person gets a good deal? Would you be HAPPIER if the other guy couldn't get the deal? If so I think that's messed up personally... it's not like you were going to get an even BETTER deal. It makes no difference that someone else is getting it too because it isn't like you would have rather chosen to get SampleTank LE all this time INSTEAD so there's nothing to kick yourself in the foot about.

Look, we buy what we want to use. We USE it and get our value out of it. After a while it often depreciates when/if it gets blown out and a new version comes along. IK likes to do MAJOR updates (minor updates are often unpaid updates... ala SampleTank 2 to 2.1 to 2.2 to 2.5 were all FREE updates for ST2 users). So, when that time comes the difference between one person and the next is what they got to enjoy first before qualifying for the same deal.

Anyway, believe me, I could rally all you want for IK to change from crossgrade BACK to just upgrades (even though I was one of the biggest rallying people in KVRians' favor FOR the crossgrades in the first place) but man would that make me feel really bad thinking that the reason was because people just wanted to have a better deal than the next guy. But, when it comes time for YOU to want the crossgrade discount to some new product that you didn't own the previous version of... no more crossgrade for you either. It works both ways. It works in everyone's FAVOR is the thing. It doesn't take anything AWAY from ANYONE! It only GIVES and GENEROUSLY to ALL IK users... and I personally think it is a FANTASTIC way of rewarding all of your customers. It's modern and inviting, rewarding, enticing etc.

But, anyway, whatever. I try to listen to you guys and help speak for what I think people want. If that's what you guys want then I'll relay that on and see what happens. What a shame it's not appreciated though. After all the work it took to get that deal to be permanent too. Oh well. All because of some kind of weird and petty envy or something. Yuck. Sorry. I just think you guys should all be happy each of you all can get a good deal on it... especially in here where it is a community.

[Squids]

Again, as I explained, the crossgrade is only to the DELUXE version. The deluxe version has extra things you never had before. They cost money. They ONLY cost you at MOST $299.

I hate how this comes up everytime IK updates a product but...


[EDITED TO USE MSRP PRICES]:

Total amount [MSRP] spent by people who are upgrading a previous copy of T-Racks:

$399.99 (T-Racks VST MSRP)
$299.99 (T-Racks 3 Crossgrade Price)
_______
$699.99


Total amount [MSRP] spent by people who are crossgrading from another IK product:

$ 99.99 (Amplitube 2 Live MSRP - qualifies for crossgrade)
$299.99 (T-Racks 3 Crossgrade Price)
_______
$399.99 <- Much more reasonable


That's a $300.00 difference in amount spent!


That's the point Compyfox and I are making. To offer a crossgrade discount is cool (even if the crossgrade would only be $50 off), but there should be a sweeter path for previous owners than just anyone who has something registered with IK.

In the way things are currently run, people who give IK the MOST amount of money (i.e. buying the full blown versions of new products at full price), see no better discount than those who support IK to a lesser extent (i.e. buying clearance items, or LE versions).

Let me just add: I'm not ruling out getting T-Racks 3, the policy just rubs me the wrong way.

You can't make your point accurately unfortunately because people don't usually pay MSRP price and you can't quote street price if you don't know the official MAP.

Anyway, login at esoundz to see what your price would be. You might be surprised. Just don't quote in here please.

As far as IK goes, if you prefer to buy direct I am sure you could contact them and ask for $50 off and probably get it. Maybe not if you bought it recently for what it's been blown out for but if you bought it a year ago for the map price of $299 then perhaps you can.

However, and this is really the key point, there are TWO versions of TR3. The STANDARD version is the update with a lot of nice new features. The DELUXE version is an update and a major upgrade with new additional sub-products inside. It's the DELUXE version. It comes with more module plug-ins inside. You have to pay for those additional plug-ins if you want them no matter what you own previously.

Look, you pay for models. It costs a lot of money to make models and you have to pay for them. There's no getting around that because if companies couldn't charge for new development (especially elaborate high end gear) then the couldn't stay in business doing more. That's what takes the engineer/developers months to do to get right (not to mention to do it right they need to beg borrow or BUY a $30K Fairchild to compare with the real thing) and then they SELL that to you if you WANT it. If not then you can get the Standard TR3 update for $169 (MAP). Maybe even less again if you bought TR3 for more than what it has been going for lately.

When you own AmpliTube 2 and you want the models of Hendrix's rig you have to buy the JH Edition. When you want models of Ampeg you have to buy Ampeg SVX. So, when you want the models of the Fairchild and Pultec etc. you have to BUY TR3 Deluxe Crossgrade. If you don't want them then stick with Standard and if you don't want to update to get the features of that then stick with the T-RackS you have! The options are simple, the prices are fair for what you get and if you don't think so then no one is forcing you to get it anyway!

For me personally, I don't see anyone can resist. Getting stuck on principle when you're not comparing apples with apples anyway is pointless. Just look at the bottom line. What do you get for your money and is it worth it or not? What if it was called something completely different? Then would it be okay to pay for it?

This is just ridiculous to argue. It should be obvious I mean come on. Especially to a vintage gear nut like you Funky one. Beatles dude. The BEATLES. All you need is LOVE and this Fairchild and you're in business (and the new Altec RS124 plug-in from EMI btw which is coming too).

Resistance is futile. You know it's going to be good. You know you're going to want to get it and if you think about it the price is very fair. It really is. It's either this Waves or UAD. All great products but this one costs less and you can put it on multiple machines. I'd buy that in a second! I was even BARELY considering saving up for a REAL hardware Fairchild!!!!! This just saved me tens of thousands. It's that good.

[Compyfox]

In other words, this:

IF YOU WANT A FAIRCHILD, PULTEC, BRICKWALL LIMITER, DELUXE PARAMETRIC EQ ALA GML FOR ONLY $299 THEN GET THE DELUXE TR3 CROSSGRADE!!!!

I give up, I resignate.
There're tons of alternatives to IKM's crazy "crossgrade only" deals, which was my main concern: "why not a pure upgrade path?".

I understand that you have to defend them as main supportive dealer, but this is ridiculus. Paying stuff at nearly full price over and over and over again. Forget the crossgrade deals. Even for the normal version (crossgrade price), it's still too expensive and the loyal customers are left out.

That is as long as you at least own one IK product (TRackS or other). If you don't already own an IK product then it's only a hundred bucks more... the same hundred bucks it would cost to get the previous T-RackS with its 5 classic fx anyway. See how it all makes sense?

I have 3 Plugins from IKM:
- Amplitube 2 Duo
- ARC (boxed)
- T-Racks VST

I paid my fair share already, why shall I do it again to get an upgraded version? Like I said, I pay 150Euro from Cubase SX3 to C4, get ton of new plugins, an upgraded host, an extensive sample set, etc. Or Linplug RM5, where I also only pay like 70bucks and get a totally overhauled and massively enhanced plugin compared to the full price. Rayzoon Jamstix? Don't let me get started on that.

Maybe IKM thinks the crossgrade deals are a cool idea, and to some extend it is. But as loyal customer I feel like smacked in the face.

If the answer is yes then great! If the answer is no then... IMO it's your loss. To me this is a must have for any studio. A staple piece regardless of what else you have. Why? Because it is more than just those delish models. It is a swiss army knife bag of tricks and no DOUBT it will come in real handy to anyone producing in their virtual studio no matter what style of music.

This is a true marketing comment right there. "it's your loss if you don't get it" "it's a swiss army knife bag of tricks".

To me, T-Racks is wrongly advertised. It's advertises as mastering set, yet the old set was only usable to me as plugins while tracking (mixing) and not mastering. The compressor responds wonky, the EQ is too broad, the limiter too agressive. Granted that can work for some material, but mastering needs surgical tools, and T-Racks is the wrong way to go. For using it in Postproduction, I don't say anybody against it, but it's still too broad to handle.


To me it's no real loss, it's more sad that I'm not able to access it at a reasonable(!) price as loyal customer. And please don't let me get startet on the overpriced Amplitube offerings that other firms handled way better (Line6 Gearboy, Native Instruments GR, Alien Connections Revalver 3) in terms of upgrade packs rather than getting a complete new plugin for the full price again. As example: all of Line6's GearBox Modelpack prices and the VST plugin are cheaper than AT2 and offer more than AT2/SVX/AT2JH alltogether, and I have a NEVE, SSL and AVALON Preamp, not to mention ton of truthful reconstructed guitar amp MODELS - and I barely paid anything for upgrades in comparision (not to mention I got free upgrades since using GearBox 1.x).

I said it before, I'll say it again. It's on my "wanted tools" list, just not on high priority, and I can live with the alternatives I have and know already. Maybe others should do the same and IKM will give in.



EDIT:
Speaking of MAP - that is something that noboy here in Germany knows or even "offers". All say "we go by the full price only". Benefit? None that I know of.

[Squids]

I am not going to respond line by line to that. It's not just marketing speak when I say it is a swiss army knife bag of tricks. This is a SUITE of many plug-ins within a plug-in. When you're in a situation where you need this or that it is nice to have a variety of tools around that's all I mean. Waves Platinum is also a swiss army knife bag of tricks too! Just costs more money but not a bad thing to have too. Most engineers I know would easily justify having both and more because in the virtual world it just costs so so so much less than it does in the hardware world where $2,000 gets you one mono channel of really good tube EQ if you're lucky.

So, imagine this for a second PLEASE. Imagine that T-RackS the plug-in had a new version called T-RackS 3 Standard. Let's say, for sake of argument, that there was an upgrade offered to the new version for around a hundred bucks. It gave you new features and improvements. Some would get it, some might not. Is it incredibly expensive? Not really. I mean it's not free but it's a new version and it's likely going to cost something to get it if you want it so there you go.

But, wait, there's something else too? There's a Deluxe version. Something on TOP of the T-RackS 3 Standard. There's something with more products within a product. Something that is not a direct lineage but something that has ADDITIONAL products included with it. What does THAT cost? What???? Only $299 (or less) to get a Fairchild plug-in, a Pultec Plug-in, a Brick Wall Limiter plug-in, another precision oriented Parametric EQ, an Opto Compressor? REALLY????? JUST $299 for 5 ADDITIONAL REALLY COOL PLUG-INS? Damn.... that's good! It's REALLY good.

Anyway, at the end of the day you either look at those additional models and want them bad enough to pay for them like everyone else or you skip it. Sure, I can say it's your loss but that doesn't mean you can't make up for that loss with getting something else. By all means, everyone gets whatever they feel like! It's your money. But, when a product comes out that has a reasonable or even GREAT price and yet offers some of the best sounding models of expensive hardware... well to ME that is a NO-BRAINER. But that's to me... and to a lot of pros I know that occasionally will mix inside the box (or in some cases all the time with label budgets these days).

[ducatibruce]

So, with the XGear style addition to TRacks & the differences between the 2 TRacks versions - does that mean that there's some further emulations in the pipeline that can be added to either the standard or deluxe versions?

[Per Lichtman]

A few quick comments on the topic.

I am curious to hear how the emulated Pultec gear compares to the URS, UAD and Waves JJP equivalents (and the Fairchild for the latter two). It is good for the consumer to have choices and some people seem to take issue with one or more of them. Example:

-One manufacturer requires a DSP card.
-One requires a dongle.
-One manufacturer has a less than popular update plan and has PR issues regarding piracy.
-One manufacturer eschews an upgrade policy in favor of a crossgrade policy.

So it's good for consumers to be able to choose between different approaches.

Now I can't speak to the quality of this new emulation but I am very curious. I find that URS's more recent products are far superior to their earlier emulations, such as the "Fultec" and I find that the Bomb Factory line hasn't been very close to the emulated gear (especially in the case of the 1176). That left UAD and Waves.

Taking the card out of the equation, the UAD plug-ins are close in price to the T-Racks 3 Deluxe, so if the quality is similar as well then it should be great for people to be able to have another viable choice. I believe that if you opted for that UAD-1 Flexi instead of a UAD-2 you could get the Pultec and Fairchild emulations plus at least one or two others for $400 here in the states. As mentioned, it is more expensive with the UAD-2. The Waves JJP is considerably more expensive than either.

Best of luck to all parties involved and I hope that the software 1) is high quality and 2) is recognized for it. Oh but be careful about saying "GML-like", as that comparison gets tossed around more than it deserves.

[Squids]

So, with the XGear style addition to TRacks & the differences between the 2 TRacks versions - does that mean that there's some further emulations in the pipeline that can be added to either the standard or deluxe versions?

If I had to guess I'd think yes. But I actually don't know. I only know that I'd certainly ask and beg for that. But probably. If there was though I am sure they'd be paid for additions just like I've been explaining the deluxe version. Hmmm. I wonder if there was just T-RackS 3 and then separately you could buy the T-RackS Vintage Bundle and ADD IT to your T-RackS 3 if people would understand more that it is like getting Ampeg to add to your AmpliTube with X-Gear. Because that's all I'm saying but some people just aren't getting that. It's not that hard to understand though if you can compare to other IK products like the Powered By AmpliTube family and X-Gear.

[ATS]

In the way things are currently run, people who give IK the MOST amount of money (i.e. buying the full blown versions of new products at full price), see no better discount than those who support IK to a lesser extent (i.e. buying clearance items, or LE versions).

Here's where you're wrong. Who said you are GIVING anyone money? You are BUYING something. If you bought TRackS and have enjoyed it for years vs. the guy who bought SampleTank LE and enjoyed it for five minutes and you both qualify for the same discount then:

1. You paid for a more elaborate product that you've been enjoying and that other person has not. That's the difference in value right there.

2. What difference does it make that the next person gets a good deal? Would you be HAPPIER if the other guy couldn't get the deal? If so I think that's messed up personally... it's not like you were going to get an even BETTER deal. It makes no difference that someone else is getting it too because it isn't like you would have rather chosen to get SampleTank LE all this time INSTEAD so there's nothing to kick yourself in the foot about.

Look, we buy what we want to use. We USE it and get our value out of it. After a while it often depreciates when/if it gets blown out and a new version comes along. IK likes to do MAJOR updates (minor updates are often unpaid updates... ala SampleTank 2 to 2.1 to 2.2 to 2.5 were all FREE updates for ST2 users). So, when that time comes the difference between one person and the next is what they got to enjoy first before qualifying for the same deal.

Anyway, believe me, I could rally all you want for IK to change from crossgrade BACK to just upgrades (even though I was one of the biggest rallying people in KVRians' favor FOR the crossgrades in the first place) but man would that make me feel really bad thinking that the reason was because people just wanted to have a better deal than the next guy. But, when it comes time for YOU to want the crossgrade discount to some new product that you didn't own the previous version of... no more crossgrade for you either. It works both ways. It works in everyone's FAVOR is the thing. It doesn't take anything AWAY from ANYONE! It only GIVES and GENEROUSLY to ALL IK users... and I personally think it is a FANTASTIC way of rewarding all of your customers. It's modern and inviting, rewarding, enticing etc.

But, anyway, whatever. I try to listen to you guys and help speak for what I think people want. If that's what you guys want then I'll relay that on and see what happens. What a shame it's not appreciated though. After all the work it took to get that deal to be permanent too. Oh well. All because of some kind of weird and petty envy or something. Yuck. Sorry. I just think you guys should all be happy each of you all can get a good deal on it... especially in here where it is a community.

yeh but like when sampletank 3 comes out. I have 2 but there won't be aan upgrade path just a crossgrade. I think that sucks.

[Squids]

-One manufacturer requires a DSP card.
-One requires a dongle.
-One manufacturer has a less than popular update plan and has PR issues regarding piracy.
-One manufacturer eschews an upgrade policy in favor of a crossgrade policy.

Let's put it this way. This little piggy goes ALLLLLLL the way home! It also blew the house down.



Yes, I agree. It really comes down to comparing apples with apples and then looking at the drawbacks of one to the next and also the price. Forget this weak argument about policies... policies shmolicies. It's irrelevant in the case of the Deluxe. EVERYONE would be buying something you didn't have before since it didn't EXIST before (regarding the extra things in the Deluxe vs. Standard). The STANDARD is the upgrade. Maybe IK just shouldn't offer an upgrade path to Deluxe at all and just allow an upgrade to T-RackS 3 Standard for $99 or something. You know what? I am going to ask for that. I think people can justify paying full price for the Deluxe version anyway because it's worth it (and still half the price of Waves and UAD at that). And for the the people that complain there's no inexpensive upgrade path well... it will solve that too!

Maybe that'd make more sense. Or maybe both at this point.