Zebra2: One-shot envelope triggering
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- KVRist
- 141 posts since 1 Dec, 2007 from Cologne, Germany
I'm trying to do some synth percussion sounds with Zebra and want to get them independent of the note length. So what I need is something like triggering the envelopes in one-shot mode. My idea was to set release and decay to similar values but that doesn't seem to work. There's still a difference when varying note lengths. So what's the best practice to get the desired result?
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- KVRAF
- 13444 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
I'm not sure whether this is exactly possible, but my guess would be not.
The "problem" however doesn't have anything to do with the envelopes but with the oscillators, which always react to note offs. Drum samplers (or synths) of the usual kind ignore note offs. That's what's usually considered "one shot" mode, so they play through the entire sample all the time. Any envelopes are then used to shape the sound further, but generally it's all about note offs being ignored.
In a synth, to get the same results, you'd have to have an oscillator which would have a fixed "play for x amount of time and ignore note offs" feature.
Hm, thinking about it, the envelope's hold and decay parameters (along with an identical release) should perhaps do the job...
The "problem" however doesn't have anything to do with the envelopes but with the oscillators, which always react to note offs. Drum samplers (or synths) of the usual kind ignore note offs. That's what's usually considered "one shot" mode, so they play through the entire sample all the time. Any envelopes are then used to shape the sound further, but generally it's all about note offs being ignored.
In a synth, to get the same results, you'd have to have an oscillator which would have a fixed "play for x amount of time and ignore note offs" feature.
Hm, thinking about it, the envelope's hold and decay parameters (along with an identical release) should perhaps do the job...
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- u-he
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Hmmm... setting decay and release to same values should work - provided sustain is set to zero, and the velocity/key settings for each value (accessible over [+|-] control) are identical as well.phazed wrote:I'm trying to do some synth percussion sounds with Zebra and want to get them independent of the note length. So what I need is something like triggering the envelopes in one-shot mode. My idea was to set release and decay to similar values but that doesn't seem to work. There's still a difference when varying note lengths. So what's the best practice to get the desired result?
If it isn't - please send me a patch for further investigation...
Cheers,
Urs-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 141 posts since 1 Dec, 2007 from Cologne, Germany
I have 2 examples here:
http://temp.phazed.de/Kick_Factory_Test_1.h2p
http://temp.phazed.de/Kick_Factory_Test_2.h2p
Please use a headphones when listening to them because the difference is not very large. I had more prominent examples while playing around but can't reproduce it at the moment (Murphy's law).
I also have to note that the patches make use of the XY pages.
In the first patch the click at the end is much more audible when playing short notes. Ideally there would be no click at all.
In the second patch you can hear a more noticable difference in length and this has to do with using a MSEG for pitch. I don't know how to solve the problem for MSEGs. I tried to replace the MSEG with a simple envelope because I only need one stage for that application but was not able to get similar results (for whatever reason).
http://temp.phazed.de/Kick_Factory_Test_1.h2p
http://temp.phazed.de/Kick_Factory_Test_2.h2p
Please use a headphones when listening to them because the difference is not very large. I had more prominent examples while playing around but can't reproduce it at the moment (Murphy's law).
I also have to note that the patches make use of the XY pages.
In the first patch the click at the end is much more audible when playing short notes. Ideally there would be no click at all.
In the second patch you can hear a more noticable difference in length and this has to do with using a MSEG for pitch. I don't know how to solve the problem for MSEGs. I tried to replace the MSEG with a simple envelope because I only need one stage for that application but was not able to get similar results (for whatever reason).
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- u-he
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Very interesting!
I think this is related to my constant time envelopes rather than constant rate. The release time *adds* to the time that has already passed by. That means, it doesn't scale with the level that's already reached. Hmmm... gotta think about it.
I'm furtherly confused by the small click at the end. That certainly shouldn't be there either. I've recently worked on the voice mixer, maybe I find answers there.
Great drum patches though!
Later,
Urs
I think this is related to my constant time envelopes rather than constant rate. The release time *adds* to the time that has already passed by. That means, it doesn't scale with the level that's already reached. Hmmm... gotta think about it.
I'm furtherly confused by the small click at the end. That certainly shouldn't be there either. I've recently worked on the voice mixer, maybe I find answers there.
Great drum patches though!
Later,
Urs-
- u-he
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Good news!
I looked into it and indeed, there's been a chance that even not-so-fast release times could create little pops at the end (barely audible, but still). These have been unnoticed in years (or blamed on too fast release times), but d'oh... it took some kick drums to unveil them
The good news is, this is fixed now. Next update/beta will remove any chance to get these little clicks and pops.
Later,
Urs
I looked into it and indeed, there's been a chance that even not-so-fast release times could create little pops at the end (barely audible, but still). These have been unnoticed in years (or blamed on too fast release times), but d'oh... it took some kick drums to unveil them
The good news is, this is fixed now. Next update/beta will remove any chance to get these little clicks and pops.
Later,
Urs-
- KVRer
- 3 posts since 6 Sep, 2013
Hi there, I have already tried sending you a direct message from your website support page on this original subject of "one shot envelopes" where one can stab trigger a sound and it passes through every stage of the envelope regardless that note off has been sent when the keys are released.Urs wrote:Good news!
I looked into it and indeed, there's been a chance that even not-so-fast release times could create little pops at the end (barely audible, but still). These have been unnoticed in years (or blamed on too fast release times), but d'oh... it took some kick drums to unveil them
The good news is, this is fixed now. Next update/beta will remove any chance to get these little clicks and pops.
Later,
This is an old post and I am actually trying out Zebra2 at the moment. This feature is very important for me and I was wondering if you can tell me if it is now possible to do in Zebra2 ?