Daft Punk/Justice scales...

[Vivada]

I love Daft Punk as much as the next guy and all... but I think a lot of people give them a lot of credit for doing much of what they have taken from others... I'd have to say that sockofgold is probably right in this case. Have you seen this video?



I thought "Discovery" was an absolute work of neo-disco genius when it came out... and then someone ruined the illusion that I had where these two guys conjured up all of the pieces on that album. Check the video.

That just totally shattered my delusions... thanks xD.

[lotus2035]

Daft Punk = Best rip-off artists ever!!..
Man they owe a lot of black dudes money..

[bernhardtjeff]

I just think that the only people who consciously think about scales when they write are Bach and Yngwie Malmsteen. Not that there's anything wrong with Bach.

There are sooo many "scales" in existence, but so many of them are just weird names thrown on strange strings of notes. Essentially, 90% of what you hear is just a major scale from one key played in a different key, i.e. "modes". Learn your modes, and you'll be set with an outrageously diverse musical palette, and you will probably never think about "what scale is that" again.

are you being serious here?

"weird names thrown on strange strings of notes"... unless you're saying this in jest, it sounds like maybe you don't really understand the rationales behind picking the weird names for those strange strings of notes

[bernhardtjeff]

Concerning "Primetime of Your Life"...
Sounds like japanese microtonics to me, they fit almost perfectly over a western scale, given their pythagorean similarities.

Possibly, Daft Punk heard japanese traditional music somewhere.

Maybe there borowing scales and such then adapting them.


Just taking a wild stab in the dark. Ouch! Oh sorry.

what are these "japanese microtonics" you speak of?

[afreshcupofjoe]

thanks a lot for this help and saying what chords etc are being played. i understand it a bit more now. the only thing that confuses me is in relation to scale and harmony. i have always wondered about the relationship between the two, as i always try to harmonise using chords that only contain notes that are in the same key as the song. but as i am finding this seems to be quite limiting and doesn't allow a great deal of excitement in tracks. i think i am finding it hard to know when to use notes/chords that are not in the songs key, without it just sounding like i'm playing off-key. for example, you mention the fact that the 2nd note in that daft punk track is Fs, which is not in the A minor scale, so i guess my question would be, why would you chose to play that note when it is not in key? because i wouldn't even consider that note as i know its not in the A minor scale, and i'd be worried it would sound like i've hit a wrong note or gone off-key, but clearly it doesn't in that daft punk track (so why the need for keys etc?). i think this is where the main confusion is coming in, playing that D major chord when the bass is playing the 3rd (Fs). If i were to use a chord that contained a note not in key, i wouldn't have imagine that melodically, using the off-key (borrowed) note would sound right, so i would be inclined to have used either the D or G (again, running into this idea i have of sticking to the key of the track).

i realise i am probably over complicating it, but the music theory i have is based on some simple classical theory which was very strict on scales, and staying in key etc. there was no room for "rule breaking" in what i learned, which is probably why i am finding it hard to understand it, (but i REALLY want to grasp it), just so i know how and when to use it, to make my music sound more interesting. thanks again, and any further enlightenment will be greatly appreciated!

Your problem is that you have too basic of an understanding of music theory. Most modern music breaks the rules of classical theory constantly, even in the most simple music. Once you learn enough theory you will realize that there are no rules. The theory is just there to describe complex note relationships and make it easier to organize and communicate musical ideas. It can also help in a pinch if you want know what chord or note will work well in a certain context, but it shouldn't be used as a guide for how to write your music unless you are trying to sound like a particular genre that tends to follow certain patterns.

A little bit of music theory is a dangerous thing because it promotes a very limiting mindset. You are either going to have to just experiment more and figure out what works for you, or learn more theory. Trying to apply entry level classical theory to something like daft punk isn't going to make much sense.

[MOK19]

afreshcupofjoe is absolutely right... I know this through experiencing this recently, firsthand. I started learning some theory, hoping it'd help my musicianship. I got about 10 lessons worth, but I had to cut off my lessons due to $$$. Now I understand a great deal more of what is going on, and undertand alot of the kind of cause-effect relationships, but I've found it hard to break out of that system that I've started to see. It's like the matrix. Take the red pill, or the blue pill.

Now I've gotta work hard to break out of my current partial-knowledge induced perspective, and it's not easy. So I totally feel your pain, Brad Tyler.

Regarding the original topic though... Its funny, i logged onto KVR looking for pretty much the very same topic. Except, it's not about daft punk, or justice. Or this supposed japanese microtonic blah blah blah. Those are all misnomers, distracting from the bigger picture, I think.
This is more about HOUSE MUSIC. House music as a genre *consistently* does what DP & Justice are doing in those tracks. For instance, here's a song I was just trying to analyze before coming here:


That said, I feel like there must be some sort of system behind this style. I'm sure most the producers aren't consciously following any rules, they're just doing what sounds right. But much like a good ole' scale, you can find it by ear without knowledge of what it is, but it's still something that fits within the descriptions of classic music theory.

So I'm left absolutely intrigued, what crazy corner of music theory does house music tend to dwell in? Is it modal music? That's something I sure as hell don't understand.. But I hear that lots of jazz musicians use it, and house & disco certainly has lots of jazz elements.

Can anyone offer some ideas? I'm not buying this Japanese angle. This is a distinctly well-trod modern western style we are hearing, IMO.

[Sixofour]

I seriously doubt Daft Punk is thinking about or even know what scale they are using.

Don't get too wrapped in "scales," especially when dealing with electronic music. I think it is very common for people to just punch at the keys until they come across something they like, particularly in the case of something like Prime Time of Your Life, where the notes are just single notes dropped every second or so. You're really getting yourself into a line of thinking that will not be very beneficial to you.

Lol? Nice broad flame of electronic music as a whole.

Most DNB/Psy producers i know [and that is alot]...spend most of their time on constructing scales and chordal progressions, for nearly every element of sound. Even in my exprimental music i spend plenty of time on the chords alone.

Playing untill you hear something nice...hrm, i know alot of old guys with curly white hair who did exactly that!

Your problem is that you have too basic of an understanding of music theory. Most modern music breaks the rules of classical theory constantly, even in the most simple music. Once you learn enough theory you will realize that there are no rules. The theory is just there to describe complex note relationships and make it easier to organize and communicate musical ideas. It can also help in a pinch if you want know what chord or note will work well in a certain context, but it shouldn't be used as a guide for how to write your music unless you are trying to sound like a particular genre that tends to follow certain patterns.

A little bit of music theory is a dangerous thing because it promotes a very limiting mindset. You are either going to have to just experiment more and figure out what works for you, or learn more theory. Trying to apply entry level classical theory to something like daft punk isn't going to make much sense.

+1 for people who know what they are talking about.

[lotus2035]

Electronic music and all its genres was built on breaking rules not following them...
There were pioneering English Dnb producers who didn't even mix their stuff properly, they would just low cut the whole mix and send it off to be mastered, they were hardly the type to sit around analyzing scales all day..
Although I'm sure there are plenty of tight arses around these days who don't have an ounce of "punk" attitude in them and who analyze the hell out of everything...
All pristine, perfect and more than likely predictable as f**k...

[sockofgold]

I love how people randomly dig up this old thread and start bashing me for what I said 2 months ago. I am right, and you are wrong!

[Baz]

Anyway everybody is making major/minor stuff...it's not particular to electro or french electro...In most of the case if you play an exotic chord ( even if musically right ) all the assholes will come and say that you're bad and play wrong because they've been traumatised with these scales...By the "symphonies in C"... (little wink to a rock band I hate).

In rock music, a singer (you know a bit dark and everything...) singing on major minor changes is making all teenies wetting their panties...but that terribly common...(particularly in UK rock)