Improvements!

[amoeba]

my .02 on the tag stuffs:

i don't care for the tagging idea in this case. i hate the NI way of doing that. my use of directory structure handles my organization (but collapsable folders would be *really* nice!)

what i would love to have is a simple 5 star patch rating system, tho. or 3 stars. at least 3... and a way to sort by that, of course.

[Urs]

my .02 on the tag stuffs:

i don't care for the tagging idea in this case. i hate the NI way of doing that. my use of directory structure handles my organization (but collapsable folders would be *really* nice!)

what i would love to have is a simple 5 star patch rating system, tho. or 3 stars. at least 3... and a way to sort by that, of course.

That's basically what I think, too. Maybe we can do yomething clever where each of the stars can mean something different, if the user wants it that way.

We'll see...

[suthnear]

Can someone post some moog samples that "cannot be recreated" I would love to have a go

I've got some really good ones somewhere. I'll dig them out and post them.

[Edit] I found some of them and I've put them here. Check out the filter sweep particularly, but most of them exhibit that moogy solidity and tightness...

[psycox]

my .02 on the tag stuffs:

i don't care for the tagging idea in this case. i hate the NI way of doing that. my use of directory structure handles my organization (but collapsable folders would be *really* nice!)

what i would love to have is a simple 5 star patch rating system, tho. or 3 stars. at least 3... and a way to sort by that, of course.

That's basically what I think, too. Maybe we can do yomething clever where each of the stars can mean something different, if the user wants it that way.

We'll see...

more tagging i dont need. maybe a search function would be clever when i remind a part of a patchname of a nice sound.

[ZenPunkHippy]

more tagging i dont need. maybe a search function would be clever when i remind a part of a patchname of a nice sound.

I tend to agree with this ... I would rather it was kept simple and neat, with minor improvements to the way it works now. Collapsable folders would be a huge help. The focus of the product should be on the sound, not fancy database + gui for patch sortng. Plenty of products have been ruined by this kind of application bloat in the past.

Logic does a pretty cool job of organising patches, but if I start tagging them with arbitrary text it quickly becomes complicated. A tag that seems to fit now might not fit in 2 years time, unless we have a very rigid system in place.

A favourites folder with sub-folders could achieve a similar thing. A rating system sounds like a decent enough idea too.

Peace,
Andy.

[kuniklo]

There are a bunch of things I'd rather see in Zebra than tagging & database features. Nested folders is good enough.

The NI approach sounds nice in theory but in practice it's a nuisance.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Hmm ... I just thought of a neat idea ... maybe it's silly ... but it concerns delays ... and I don't think I've seen this kind of thing in a synth yet ...

Would it be possible to have a "reverse delay" function? Presumably the wave that has just been generated is stored in memory somewhere for the delay function to work at all i.e. repeat the same sound. An option in the delay settings marked "Reverse" would play the same sound again but backwards, at the usual user definable time. It would be quite cheap to implement, as it only involves cycling through the waveform memory in reverse. Perhaps the delay time option could be limited to after the entire wave is complete, but not necessarily.

It would save having to bounce and sample a sound, reverse it, and then load a new (non-Zebra!! ) instrument if you were after this type of effect. It could make for some really interesting sounds with long evolving pads or short squelchy noises which is what I'm working on right now

In a way, it could be done with MSEG's I guess, but that could be difficult to set up or impossible if you have run out of space, and the sound would not be "identical".

Peace,
Andy.

[pdxindy]

but I can't understand pdxindy why you're so determined to find fault with an idea that, as I have proposed it, would not affect your way of using Zebra at all.

huh? We are talking about it and I am giving my opinion... I think you need not worry that somehow my opinion is going to change Urs decisions on the matter...

[justin3am]

Hmm ... I just thought of a neat idea ... maybe it's silly ... but it concerns delays ... and I don't think I've seen this kind of thing in a synth yet ...

Would it be possible to have a "reverse delay" function? Presumably the wave that has just been generated is stored in memory somewhere for the delay function to work at all i.e. repeat the same sound. An option in the delay settings marked "Reverse" would play the same sound again but backwards, at the usual user definable time. It would be quite cheap to implement, as it only involves cycling through the waveform memory in reverse. Perhaps the delay time option could be limited to after the entire wave is complete, but not necessarily.

It would save having to bounce and sample a sound, reverse it, and then load a new (non-Zebra!! ) instrument if you were after this type of effect. It could make for some really interesting sounds with long evolving pads or short squelchy noises which is what I'm working on right now

In a way, it could be done with MSEG's I guess, but that could be difficult to set up or impossible if you have run out of space, and the sound would not be "identical".

Peace,
Andy.

Reverse delays can be achieved with Zebra's built in delays by modulating the delay ratios with an upwards saw. Set the delay to 2 stereo, set taps 1 and 2 to 1/1 delay time, go to the mod mixer and select the delay ratios as the destination and an LFO with a 1/1 duration and gated operation. Set the mod depth to full and now when you hit a note you will hear the same note in reverse.

[ZenPunkHippy]

That's very cool ... ta for the tip ... it should come with a warning for potential speaker damage though

Nice glitch effects possible too.

Peace,
Andy.

[hakey]

but I can't understand pdxindy why you're so determined to find fault with an idea that, as I have proposed it, would not affect your way of using Zebra at all.

huh? We are talking about it and I am giving my opinion

Sorry, but you really wound me up with the 'you can already do exactly what you are talking about' comment, which, besides being wrong, came across as just a little patronising.

Anyway, it doesn't look as though there's any enthusiasm for the whole tagging idea and I accept that mission-creep/bloat objection is one legitimate objection.

What about some way of searching the patch description (when you save patches in 2.3 you can add notes for description and usage)? This could pretty much do what tagging does, I think.




Hey Suthnear, your link doesn't seem to point to any downloadable files.

[tylenol]

Anyway, it doesn't look as though there's any enthusiasm for the whole tagging idea

I actually think it would be pretty useful myself, and I can't imagine I'm the only one, you just got a bunch of vocal anti-taggists / people who are used to their way of doing things. Searching the patch description would also be pretty nice, but not exactly the same, since the usefulness of tags is as much about browsing as about searching. I also don't see how it would add any bloat to speak of, because stuff like this is computationally trivial, and could probably fit into the existing browsing interface with little difficulty. Well, I can see how an inexperienced programmer could overdo it, but that is not the situation here. Part of the experience of a modern softsynth is not just the sound, but the UI and ease of use -- zebra 2 is already ahead of the curve on this and I imagine Urs would be able to do this kind of feature well if he chose to, and get even further ahead.

But, I would certainly not want it to be Urs' priority any time soon. (In any case it seems like his priorities for quite a while are pretty well set, no matter what I think.)

[pdxindy]

but I can't understand pdxindy why you're so determined to find fault with an idea that, as I have proposed it, would not affect your way of using Zebra at all.

huh? We are talking about it and I am giving my opinion

Sorry, but you really wound me up with the 'you can already do exactly what you are talking about' comment, which, besides being wrong, came across as just a little patronising.

Hey, its the internet and miscommunication is easy... I thought you were talking about something equivalent to folders based on your comment that you would not end up previewing the same preset twice (which happens with NI stuff)

and nothing personal with you. I've found the NI system clumsy and annoying to work with so that puts an 'edge in my voice' on the subject.

cheers

[hakey]

I thought you were talking about something equivalent to folders based on your comment that you would not end up previewing the same preset twice (which happens with NI stuff)

Hmmm... that's not how I remember it working, with Kore Player at least - you select a number of attributes from the list and the browser filters the presets list to present those that have those attributes. There's no reason why you should get the same preset more than once unless there are duplicated copies of presets in different locations, but then that's not a problem caused by tagging. And, again if I remember rightly, you can still select presets from folders in the usual way, you're not forced to use the tagging browser.

That said the way that NI's implements it's general file management system can be very confusing at times and I wouldn't want Urs to adopt all of NI's way of doing things by any means.

I still like tagging as an idea.

+1 for Tylenol's post.

[adamszabo]

suthnear I cant seem to get your zip file. Do you think you could upload it to somewhere else?