Nobody's done any such thing. If anything it's the stuff that's been discussed as new features *after* this update that I'm looking forward too.tboulette wrote: OK. In that case, MY opinion is we shouldn't be griping about any delay in finishing an update that is (a) free for existing users, and (b) unlikely to generate sufficient new sales to be particularly worth Urs's time
u-he spread too thin?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2875 posts since 28 Jan, 2004 from Da Nang, Vietnam
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- KVRist
- 407 posts since 23 Oct, 2006 from Northern New England
Fair enough. You know, I probably should apologize -- I'm having one of those days at work when I feel under-appreciated and probably read something into your original post.kuniklo wrote:Nobody's done any such thing. If anything it's the stuff that's been discussed as new features *after* this update that I'm looking forward too.tboulette wrote: OK. In that case, MY opinion is we shouldn't be griping about any delay in finishing an update that is (a) free for existing users, and (b) unlikely to generate sufficient new sales to be particularly worth Urs's time
Peace.
"Enough Spyro Gyra and you're hoping you'll be killed in a knife fight."
-- Chris in the morning
-- Chris in the morning
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2875 posts since 28 Jan, 2004 from Da Nang, Vietnam
No need to apologize.tboulette wrote: Fair enough. You know, I probably should apologize -- I'm having one of those days at work when I feel under-appreciated and probably read something into your original post.
It sounds like Urs is actually leveraging his code base really well considering the market. It's too bad somebody can't make a full time living just perfecting something like Zebra.
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- u-he
- 30215 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Oh... my decision to start different products is partly selfishness. Of course I want to make more money and develop in positive growth. But that's not the main motivation to work on Uhbik rather than some overdue updates. It's also about being braindead from working on the same thing all the time.
Creating the UI for Zebrify is a *major* project. Once I had my concept laid out, it was clear that I couldn't just copy Zebra's design and move some modules around. I could certainly do that, but it would be half-assed. Instead I have decided that Zebra 2.5 will have a whole makeover including a new default skin.
So, postponing that gave me the opportunity to conclude two things: Existing products can very well do with maintenance updates (Zebra 2.3, Filterscape 1.4 or something, MFM 2.1) which mostly fix bugs and let them inherit from the engine improvements (MIDI Program Changes, GUI stuff, new serial scheme and a hell of a lot of little things). The second conclusion is, I can concentrate on Uhbik a lot. Keep in mind that all Uhbiks had basically been developed long time ago, these are foremost algorithms that were sitting in a drawer. The only further ingredients are GUI, surround capability and some small things to be developed/improved. One of those things was related to a granular device which I have postponed as well. It simply took too long to work out properly.
(hence the major delay for all things Zebra 2.3 are bugs in the engine itself... just look at how many release candidates still have niggles that I want to get rid of *before* doing anything else)
What I really think is, Uhbik will not need much maintenance, just like Filterscape. But it will put u-he on the machines of many people who so far have been intimidated by the guis of MFM2, Filterscape and Zebra. Uhbik is going to be an entry drug.
Urs
Creating the UI for Zebrify is a *major* project. Once I had my concept laid out, it was clear that I couldn't just copy Zebra's design and move some modules around. I could certainly do that, but it would be half-assed. Instead I have decided that Zebra 2.5 will have a whole makeover including a new default skin.
So, postponing that gave me the opportunity to conclude two things: Existing products can very well do with maintenance updates (Zebra 2.3, Filterscape 1.4 or something, MFM 2.1) which mostly fix bugs and let them inherit from the engine improvements (MIDI Program Changes, GUI stuff, new serial scheme and a hell of a lot of little things). The second conclusion is, I can concentrate on Uhbik a lot. Keep in mind that all Uhbiks had basically been developed long time ago, these are foremost algorithms that were sitting in a drawer. The only further ingredients are GUI, surround capability and some small things to be developed/improved. One of those things was related to a granular device which I have postponed as well. It simply took too long to work out properly.
(hence the major delay for all things Zebra 2.3 are bugs in the engine itself... just look at how many release candidates still have niggles that I want to get rid of *before* doing anything else)
What I really think is, Uhbik will not need much maintenance, just like Filterscape. But it will put u-he on the machines of many people who so far have been intimidated by the guis of MFM2, Filterscape and Zebra. Uhbik is going to be an entry drug.
Urs-
- u-he
- 30215 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
I could. But then I would have to do too many things that I don't like.kuniklo wrote:It's too bad somebody can't make a full time living just perfecting something like Zebra.
I also want to have something to add to Zebra in 4 years - it would be a shame if it was all done within a year already
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2875 posts since 28 Jan, 2004 from Da Nang, Vietnam
Sounds like a good plan to me.Urs wrote: What I really think is, Uhbik will not need much maintenance, just like Filterscape. But it will put u-he on the machines of many people who so far have been intimidated by the guis of MFM2, Filterscape and Zebra. Uhbik is going to be an entry drug.
The reason I raise this question in the first place is that I'm very tempted to simplify my setup by dumping all my synths but Zebra and Synplant but it makes me slightly nervous to be so totally dependent on a single programmer with so many responsibilities.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2875 posts since 28 Jan, 2004 from Da Nang, Vietnam
I guess this is sort of the double-edged sword of small vst dev shops. There's a ton of innovation and new ideas among the small developers, but it's also a little less certain that people aren't going to get bored and drop something and you also sacrifice a bit of the UI polish and documentation etc you get with bigger devs.Urs wrote: I could. But then I would have to do too many things that I don't like.
For instance, I prefer Zebra overall to Massive by a wide margin, but I do miss some of the interface refinements, detailed documentation etc. On the other hand, you're doing a much, much, much better job of fixing bugs than NI is so I'd say your overall priorities are in the right place.
I think it just pains me a bit that I still can't do things like copy & paste oscillator settings or browse wavetables without losing all my modulation assignments or use context menus to assign x/y controls or collapse folders in the patch browser or click through osc fx settings instead of using a dropdown over and over again or really use the scripting language that has so much potential that can't really be tapped at the moment. Sometimes being a Zebra user feels like living in a beautiful house that's never quite finished.
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- u-he
- 30215 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Point taken.kuniklo wrote:Sometimes being a Zebra user feels like living in a beautiful house that's never quite finished.
Do you have a Scrollwheel? I so got used to just hover over a menu and scroll through settings with the Scrollwheel...kuniklo wrote:using a dropdown over and over again
Btw. Uhbik has this built-in. Click = next item, RichtClick = menu. I'm contemplating to make this the optional default behaviour for all menus. Maybe even back and forth between settings by clicking on the left half or right half.
Yeah. hmmm. I think I also was a bit underwhelemed by the resonance on http://www.u-he.com/scripting/ - that's also why I'm not promoting it as much as I should. At least, the randmizers were a quite nice success. Oh... and V2.3 fixes a bug that's needed for MSEG scripting.kuniklo wrote:the scripting language that has so much potential that can't really be tapped at the moment.
I see what you mean. But then I can't really concentrate on one thing alone. I even have to spend a few days a month on making music, otherwise I create dead code.
I'm quite happy with how far it went though. There's a scary lot of more potential in Zebra, but I can't work much faster than I already do (apart from the freaky first half of the year).
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- KVRAF
- 2911 posts since 3 Mar, 2006
as a filterscape user who plans on purchasing uhbik I am VERY glad that u-he is so varied.
I plan on picking up zebra eventually, but I'm waiting for zebrify as I'm more of an effects guy...
MFM2 will probably be picked up sometime after my wallet has recovered from uhbik and christmas.
U-He is probably the best dev out there.
I plan on picking up zebra eventually, but I'm waiting for zebrify as I'm more of an effects guy...
MFM2 will probably be picked up sometime after my wallet has recovered from uhbik and christmas.
U-He is probably the best dev out there.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2875 posts since 28 Jan, 2004 from Da Nang, Vietnam
That would be great. These kinds of things add up and make a big difference in the overall experience, IMO. When you do something hundreds and hundreds of times you really start to notice.Urs wrote: Btw. Uhbik has this built-in. Click = next item, RichtClick = menu. I'm contemplating to make this the optional default behaviour for all menus. Maybe even back and forth between settings by clicking on the left half or right half.
I myself gave up after a while because the docs and implementation both seemed about half-finished. If the scripting stuff was really 100% then there would be *nothing* that could touch Zebra in terms of overall power.Yeah. hmmm. I think I also was a bit underwhelemed by the resonance on http://www.u-he.com/scripting/ - that's also why I'm not promoting it as much as I should. At least, the randmizers were a quite nice success. Oh... and V2.3 fixes a bug that's needed for MSEG scripting.kuniklo wrote:the scripting language that has so much potential that can't really be tapped at the moment.
Sure. I'm sure you could make a lot more money doing something else so I can understand why you want to focus on the things you enjoy. Maybe at some point you can hire somebody to handle some of the boring fit & polish work?I see what you mean. But then I can't really concentrate on one thing alone. I even have to spend a few days a month on making music, otherwise I create dead code.
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- u-he
- 30215 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
It depends on what you want to do with it. It's fine to implement randomizers, basic editing functions, stuff like that.kuniklo wrote:If the scripting stuff was really 100% then there would be *nothing* that could touch Zebra in terms of overall power.
But at some point it occurred to me that I'll face support desaster if I unleashed scripting for audio processes. Hence I decided to let it sit for a while. That's what I often do. I simply work the concept in the background until it really pans out. Which hasn't happened yet for this area (also because one thing that's needed is an editing facility within the plugin - which would make Zebra even more intimidating to many...)
You're right - it's a half finished area, especially in terms of docs. But it also isn't dead!
Urs
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- KVRAF
- 9590 posts since 17 Sep, 2002 from Gothenburg Sweden
Could be i'm braindead but i was under the impression i could write an article on there. I got an account and everything but i could'nt for the life of me understand how. I was going to write an article about how to access the waveforms but could'nt post it. Can i only reply there or am i just technically challenged ?Urs wrote:Yeah. hmmm. I think I also was a bit underwhelemed by the resonance on http://www.u-he.com/scripting/ - that's also why I'm not promoting it as much as I should. At least, the randmizers were a quite nice success. Oh... and V2.3 fixes a bug that's needed for MSEG scripting.kuniklo wrote:the scripting language that has so much potential that can't really be tapped at the moment.
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- u-he
- 30215 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Yeah... I think it's something about the wordpress scheme... I'll happily make you a moderator with advanced writing rights thoughjupiter8 wrote:Could be i'm braindead but i was under the impression i could write an article on there. I got an account and everything but i could'nt for the life of me understand how. I was going to write an article about how to access the waveforms but could'nt post it. Can i only reply there or am i just technically challenged ?Urs wrote:Yeah. hmmm. I think I also was a bit underwhelemed by the resonance on http://www.u-he.com/scripting/ - that's also why I'm not promoting it as much as I should. At least, the randmizers were a quite nice success. Oh... and V2.3 fixes a bug that's needed for MSEG scripting.kuniklo wrote:the scripting language that has so much potential that can't really be tapped at the moment.
