FR - STABLE Midi Sync hosting and slaving

[Exit Zero]

I'd like to re-affirm this request. Earlier in the year Jo you mentioned midi clock out would be supported. Is that coming soon? The possibilities of hybrid setups using software and hardware are on the minds of many folks these days, so I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor for future development of Mu Lab.

Furthermore, having stable clock in both directions will give Mu Lab a big edge over other software. In my experience (so far) there still are no good performance programs (such as Ableton Live, Brainspawn Forte, etc) which have successfully achieved stable hosting or slaving of midi synced external hardware devices. I've done a lot of practical research on this topic. Ableton Live is leading the race, but using Live as a midi clock host has less than desirable results.

Jo, if you could prove that Mu Lab can host (or even better yet, SLAVE) to external hardware with the same stability of hardware midi clocks then I can almost guarantee there will be a big increase of interest in your software.

Finally, if the new 'playroom' is on the horizon, please consider how the midi clock sync options will affect that.

Many thanks. I'm excited to be using MU Lab!

[MuTools]

MIDI Clock Master is on the whishlist.

Cannot give an ETA yet, but will do my best.

[MuTools]

Jo, if you could prove that Mu Lab can host (or even better yet, SLAVE) to external hardware with the same stability of hardware midi clocks then I can almost guarantee there will be a big increase of interest in your software.

Note that music software is dependent on the timing stability of the OS, i.e. on Windows and on OSX.

[Exit Zero]

Yes, I understand. And other bottlenecks such as USB do make it a challenge indeed. With a modern computer-audio setup I believe a stable sync method can be maintained - even with midi clock.

I'm sure you realize, no midi clock algos are the same. The methods of generating midi clock and interpreting incoming midi clock differ from one audio program to the next. I know this from many years of trying to battle this issue. I do not want to name specific programs, but midi sync features tend to be poorly programmed in the realm of "virtual studios". The big DAWS like Protools, Logic, Nuendo, etc are very adept at this sort of thing, but I realize they have an army of programmers at their disposal. But let it be known - in the area of virtual studios with live performance features (Ableton, Project 5, Energy XT, Brainspawn Forte, Rax, etc.) all have yet to achieve stable midi clock. Let's be clear - STABLE, as in stable enough for live performance. (This of course assumes prudent management of memory and not overloading the midi signal chain itself. If you've been around midi long enough you know this to be true even with hardware.)

I guess I am emphasizing that if you implement it, make sure it is the best it can possibly be and spare no time or expense to get it right. I've seen so many people - so many - get into software (particularly Ableton Live) and struggle with it for months trying to integrate it with their hardware only to eventually go back to the stability of a pure hardware setup. I believe sincerely in you Jo. If anyone can get this right - you can. Your vision with Muzys and now MU.Lab is proof positive that you have the skills to make it the best midi clock implementation available in any virtual studio available today.

I realize I am asking for something which wasn't exactly in the original plan, but I remember the wonderful possibilities of the 'playroom'. And to make it clear, I am not so interested anymore in "elastic audio" (or triggering audio loops) but rather I'd like to use MU.Lab to sequence it's own plugins and my hardware grooveboxes and synths. Performance of live electronic music has reached new levels of interest lately and I truly believe if MU.Lab would be supportive of this concept it would surely set it apart from other virtual studios.

All the major audio blogs will talk about it and anyone who has dealt with this frustration (DJs and electronic musicians) will spread the news like a wildfire.

If you do indeed make this happen - I can't be responsible for the onslaught of interest that will flood MU.Lab.

[MuTools]

Thanks for your encouragements. Will do my best.

[Exit Zero]

Let's not forget the Amiga platform. To this day, people will point to it's tight midi timing. I know by today's standards it's difficult to compare (not to mention completely different OS), but I think it is interesting to consider that it was possible on another older computer platform.

I've had nothing but solid timing with your software so I'm very confident in your abilities.

If you have a bit of extra time...

... can you answer - what would be more difficult to keep stable?

a. Generating midi clock for external devices? (This would hopefully also incorporate midi sync delay compensation)

or,

b. Slaving MU.Lab to an incoming midi clock? (Hi-resolution sampling of the incoming clock work better?)

[MuTools]

Let's not forget the Amiga platform. To this day, people will point to it's tight midi timing. I know by today's standards it's difficult to compare (not to mention completely different OS), but I think it is interesting to consider that it was possible on another older computer platform.

In those days, i programmed the Atari ST (IMS sequencer) and it was a similar story. It had a great MIDI timing thanks to the fact that you could program the hardware directly.

On a modern OS, there are a number of abstraction layers and multithreading systems in between which you cannot bypass.

And these cause timing instabilities.

... can you answer - what would be more difficult to keep stable?

a. Generating midi clock for external devices? (This would hopefully also incorporate midi sync delay compensation)

or,

b. Slaving MU.Lab to an incoming midi clock? (Hi-resolution sampling of the incoming clock work better?)

MIDI Clock Output will come first.

Will do my best to add it asap. I agree it's a vital part of a good MIDI sequencer.

[GaryWalker]

Is there any news on the progress of adding MIDI Clock. I'm thinking of dumping Sonar, but need MIDI sync to lock my hardware synth's arps to the computer.

[MuTools]

At this point i cannot yet give a solid ETA.

MU.LAB 3 is already cooking, and so chance is low that it will appear before MU.LAB 3 as anything added to MU.LAB 2.5 must now be implemented twice (in M2.5 and M3), which is not efficient.

I'll do my best to get it in M3.

[MuTools]

I can confirm that chance is high that Midi Clock Output will be implemented in M3.

[GaryWalker]

I can confirm that chance is high that Midi Clock Output will be implemented in M3.

Is there an ETA on M3?

[MuTools]

At this point there is no M3 ETA yet as M3 is in an open and ambitious R&D phase.