Preset browser ...

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Hello all, is my first post in Kvr, though im not exactly new, but im more a reader than a poster, and besides, my command of the english language is not exactly quite good, i mean, i must "think too much" before writing :).

First i must say im glad i purchased this synth, with his good mix of modular and "easy" interface and posibilities. Almost perfect sonically and plenty of many secrets, with a long life before exploring a small amount of all the combinations and features, but .. the browser ..

Let me explain a bit further. Im a sort of guy wich falls between a "preset guy when im bored" and "obsesive tweaker when im on it". I know the basic concepts of synthesis and normally either i start with an init patch or i tweak a factory preset till is good for my needs.

I dont know you guys how you manage your homework, but for me is something like this:

-this new synth is promising!, lets take a look at the presets..
-mmm, that one is nice and usable, that one is ... too "anarchyc" and impressive, but useless.. etc
-After say, 2 hours, of just exploring and having fun, i start to think more seriously, that is, tweak some of them, or start from zero, and here is where it comes the "patch routine", wich, after some experience in the past, you try to improve every time. The goal is to mix the "on the fly" mood of tweaking in realtime on the present, and a organized and ready to use for another moments "in the future". I guess you know what i mean :) . Just remember the first patches you had in that computer 5 years ago, half of them lost because you didnt store in a "central" folder and you cannot open that project in cubase in your new computer to recover them because you did another installation with different hierarchy and other "wonderful things" regarding computers, OS and such wich "must" happen to make you think about it :lol: .

I use to have a separate folder where i store all the personal presets of all the synths and fx i have. The only exception are the ones that have a "special" way for storage, wich is not always good, and sometimes they managed to find a good alternative.

I have two soft synths wich i will say they have the best patch managment for my needs, and, from my point of view, the rest of the soft synths in the market have something to learn from them in this field: Synth1 and Fabfilter twin.

Synth1, besides his simplicity and versatility and the fact that is one of the best freeware synths ever, have a sistem to manage presets that is so intuitive and comfortable that makes me wonder why a "freebie" like this is so advanced compared with his bigger brothers in the market. From the point of view of an avid "library preset eater" , or a "NI Kore fan user" is limited, i admit, "only" 9 banks of 128 presets .. ehem .. but from the point of view of WORKING in realtime making your own presets and storing them is so fast that, besides having better synths, i discover myself many times playing with him and in a breeze i just made 3 or 4 variations of one preset, stored them properly with different names in the appropiate bank, and even ready to work with if i open another project. In case of backup is easy, just copy the soundbanks folders you filled that are inside his own directory. The only "limitation" is that is a fixed number of banks and presets, but the simple and "real" philosophy behind the concept is simple, direct, wonderful. Nothing to add, i guess most of you know this synth, and anyway is free, so just check it if you wonder "what the heck is this guy talking about" :) .

Fabfilter twin. As the rest of the fabfilter products, i admit that their interface and the presets managment were 50% of the decision to purchase it. Dont get me wrong. Is a nice synth, decent sound, mix of good modulation posibilities with simplycity, withouth fx though, wich is the only annoyance in the long run (yes, we all know and we all have better external vst effects, but makes the preset process a bit more "splitted" etc). But the browser again, is the royal crown: The presets are available through a explorer inside the vsti, organized in folders (wich admit folders inside folders to create subdirectories until the infinite :) ), they are in a default place (my documents/fabfilter/ etc etc in windows), very easy to change from the synth itself. You can afterwards with the explorer create, remove, etc, just like zebra BUT, when it comes to Save presets in realtime working with the synth itself is easy as a explorer, wich you can change name and choose the appropiate folder.. JUST simple, direct, easy, not even using the default VSTI fxb and fxp minibrowser wich you can handle in cubase.

What amazes me, is that this "not so espectacular" and obvious feature is sometimes quite hard to find in many of the vstis in the market. I mean, soft synths nowadays have, including Zebra, really incredible possibilities, but when we talk about the "realtime" work, what i found in myself is, if i must spend more than 2 minutes figuring out how to save a new preset in the correct folder, the possibilities of creating new ones "on the fly", and the "clarity" and "freedom" of choice different folders and the best balance between that "freedom" already mentioned and "problems" with new projects, exports, imports and backups (i dont know how to explain the latter, but i guess that some of you will understand what i mean); all this things, as i said, appart of the sound and possibilities of the synth, are nowadays, for me, almost half of decision in the long run to REALLY use and enjoy that synth (as it happened for example with the synth1). A good browser that is more focused on "choose presets" than in "store personal presets" in a intuitive way, normally makes you depend on librarys and that kind of "im going to find THAT preset" mood, wich sometimes is ok, but not always, and anyway is not exactly my preference, otherwise i will buy a kore and the zillions of soundpacks and forget about anything else ..

Sumarizing, after all this bla bla bla i guess the point is obvious: Zebra2 is one of the best synths ever in terms of sound, fun, and possibilities, but the preset managment is really really, and sorry to say, like the fly inside the wine barrel (i dont know if you have this expression or if it makes sense). Is terrible for me not to find a simple "save as" on the fly, or not be able to collapse folders inside folders, etc .. when you create a patch for fun is ok, but when you start modifyng the patch that was in "factory presets/pads" to convert it in whatever but a pad, and not to be able to store in your own directory in the exact subdirectory, wich means you must store in there, swithc from the sequencer to the windows explorer, locate the folder, move the file to the desired folder, and continue working .. or, wich is worse, you modified 20 of them in their respective folders and subfolders, and before turn off the computer, remember to locate them and relocate .. mmm .. i dont know your point about this, but for me is, as you say, "a showstopper" :roll:

I guess (or maybe not)this is a really requested feature from many of you users, and i respect a lot the work of Urs and his dedication .. but please, make a browser that is at the same level of greatness of the synth! :pray:


Greetings to all.

Jose

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bit tldr but the point about needing to be able to save as (and into a folder of choice) has been brought up before - and I would prefer myself to be able to drag and drop in the browser as well rather than go into explorer to manage presets. I'd also love a way of tagging favourites (that could go with the folder of choice - you could have a "save a copy" into favourites folder sort of thing)

Embedded metadata would also be useful - then if I did make a favourites folder I would still know who made the patch originally - this could be coupled with searchability for all pads, leads etc (OK we're getting into Kore territory now but the Virus Ti does this too so...motivation :))

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Yes, drag and drop is also welcome of course, whatever improves the personal storage basically. Tagging .. i like the idea of write your comments as it is now, i find this quite usable, but to be honest, i rather prefer to store "pads" in a "pads" folder and subfolders like "evolving pads", "rythm pads" etc. After a while, because you name your own presets "normally" you remember why it was so good :), though a simple favourites tagging doesnt hurt i must say.

btw, what means "tldr"? , im not native and some of this acronyms are difficult to guess for me.

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Sorry - just a joke (means it's "too long didn't read" - but I did - but it is a bit long ;))

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I think that at least some improvements are on Urs' to-do list:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... nt#3299401
Last edited by spritex on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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aMUSEd wrote:Sorry - just a joke (means it's "too long didn't read" - but I did - but it is a bit long ;))


:) no problem, i like jokes, and you are right, its too long for such a simple request :), i even will say "is tFldr" :lol: .

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spritex wrote:I think that it is on Urs' to-do list:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... nt#3299401
Oh, i see .. thanks, so will wait for 2.5.

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Jose_ams wrote:Is terrible for me not to find a simple "save as" on the fly, or not be able to collapse folders inside folders, etc .. when you create a patch for fun is ok, but when you start modifyng the patch that was in "factory presets/pads" to convert it in whatever but a pad, and not to be able to store in your own directory in the exact subdirectory, wich means you must store in there, swithc from the sequencer to the windows explorer, locate the folder, move the file to the desired folder, and continue working .. or, wich is worse, you modified 20 of them in their respective folders and subfolders, and before turn off the computer, remember to locate them and relocate .. mmm .. i dont know your point about this, but for me is, as you say, "a showstopper" :roll:
Sure, Zebra's browser needs some improvement, but remember you can change to any folder immediately before saving your edited sound. Tip: create a TEMP folder for all "on the fly" edits, then rename + sort later using Explorer. Use Zebra's refresh function (right click in the left window) to update the lists!

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Howard wrote: Sure, Zebra's browser needs some improvement, but remember you can change to any folder immediately before saving your edited sound. Tip: create a TEMP folder for all "on the fly" edits, then rename + sort later using Explorer. Use Zebra's refresh function (right click in the left window) to update the lists!
Aha, thanks for the tip , i guess i must change a bit the routine for this synth in the meantime the 2.5 is not out.

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