MFM2 NRPN help needed!

[indigodreamer]

I've spent hours struggling with this- desperately need help!!

I want to be able to automate the input to MFM2, so that the last word of a sentence will echo. I am using Sonar. The most convenient way to automate effects in Sonar is by using NRPNs. But the NRPNs for MFM2 seem very cryptic.
Does anyone know the NRPN name for the INPUT control for channels 1-4?

(The alternative strategy, controlling via MIDI doesn't seem to be working at present for this plug. It has worked in the past so I don't think the problem is with MFM2. Also don't seem to be able to record automation for the Input control, though I can for most others in MFM2. I suppose I could uninstall and reinstall SONAR )

Thanks

Paul

[mabian]

Hello, you don't mention the version of SONAR you're using, so I give you a generic solution: why not putting MFM2 in a bus, 100% wet and automating the send amount from your track to the bus with MFM?

BTW, in recent versions of SONAR, you should also be able to automate input control directly in the audio track, not in the Midi track - this is VST automation - SONAR handles it rather well.

Not sure if MFM2 allows VST automation though...

- Mario

[aMUSEd]

Why not just select the last word and split it there - then apply the effect to just that bit?

(in some hosts you can apply an effect just to a selected area too but I'm not sure you can in Sonar)

[mabian]

aMUSED,

yes you can also do this in SONAR (it's called per clip effect) but I thought the OP has the effect always working and wants only to augment the amount of effect at a specific word.

- Mario

[aMUSEd]

I know - it just sounded a bit over-complicated. Why not just use an automation envelope set to control the dry/wet params then? (it is automatable)

[indigodreamer]

Thanks for all the suggestions, mabian and aMUSEd.

The buss idea sounds good, pretty foolproof, though I guess I will need another buss to route dry and wet to if I want to apply further effects.

I will try splitting the clip and applying the effect to the clip. If that works, it will probably be the simplest solution.

Modulating dry / wet is possible in theory but very fiddly because if I turn up wet at the point the echo-word starts, I will get audio which is already in the delay. So: I would need to have the feedback to zero, then postpone turning up the wet (and the feedback?) until the first echo I want had worked its way through the delay.

Oh, I'm using Sonar 5 PE.

Thanks again for the help, guys!

[indigodreamer]

BTW, in recent versions of SONAR, you should also be able to automate input control directly in the audio track, not in the Midi track - this is VST automation - SONAR handles it rather well.

Not sure if MFM2 allows VST automation though...

- Mario

This is the frustrating bit: I seem to have about 100 parameters for MFM2 which I can automate very easily in Sonar, (this is what I am calling NRPNs) but a) the names don't always give much of a clue what they do, and b) I suspect that input control is not among them.

Urs, please could you look at this for v2.02? Even when the Midi thing is working OK in Sonar, the automation parameters are a lot more convenient!

Thanks
Paul

[mabian]

One more thing: in recent versions of SONAR you can record knob movements as automation, so no need to know the parameter name, just arm all the plugin parameters for automation recording, start record, tweak the knob and an envelope is created for it on the fly. I strongly doubt it was there in SONAR 5 though...

Hope it helps,
Mario

[Urs]

Hi Paul,

I'm working on two solutions: First of all there's going to be a way to have more meaningful names for the automatable parameters. The problem here was that some hosts only allow for very short names, hence I had to strip them down. This might not be an issue in 2009 anymore, so I'll add this functionality as an editable parameter list, where both order and naming can be changed.

The other thing is, unlike MFM1 there is no input volume to the delay lines. I simply thought it wasn't necessary. D'oh - I think I'll bring it back in a few months.

As a workaround, you can use "Gate" as a modulator for Feedback and Wet level. Put Feedback and Dry to 0.00, map Gate to them in the ModMatrix. Then automate "RVel" or "RemoteVel". Remote Velocity is what the host records for the keyboard control. It can be used to switch the Gate modulator on and off. Alternatively, if Sonar allows for Midi input to effects, you can of course just use Midi Note events to do the switch.

Urs

[jupiter8]

Why not just select the last word and split it there - then apply the effect to just that bit?

Seems to me the easiest solution by far.

The only real drawback is that you get an extra track that clutters up the arrangment but that is a small price to pay IMO.

[aMUSEd]

You can split it but keep it on the same track

[jupiter8]

You can split it but keep it on the same track

Won't the effect cut out when the clip ends ?

[aMUSEd]

It's the last word so I thought that was the idea?

[jupiter8]

It's the last word so I thought that was the idea?

I figured it was a
"i want it all - all - all - all - all"
kinda effect he was after.

I'm not familiar with Sonar but if you do that in Cubase the effect will cut out when the clip ends resulting in pretty much nothing depending on the delay length.

[mabian]

In SONAR (7) you can increase the clip length and the per clip effect plays for the whole length, even if there's no longer signal coming from it.

- Mario