KVR Audio

Vstream · Post by **Vstream** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:46 pm

Most of pops & clicks on the V-machine are the result of a slow processor.

I installed XP on a older PC (P3 1Ghz,512 Mb) running Brainspawn Forte and as USB audio interface a cheap Behringer UCA202.
Configuration is comparable with the Vmachine.

I did some testing and with a 8ms latency, vsti's like P8 have 6 note polyphony on the windows PC but only 2 or 1 note polyphony on the Vmachine running the same sounds.

A vsti player like the Vmachine should be capable of running 4 vsti's at the same time with 16 note polyphony to be useful live on stage. Now it's only useful as a monosynth like in the old days.

I still don't understand Sm pro choose such a slow processor. It could have been
HUGE with a fast processor and less noisy outputs.

Sorry, but I send mine back.

ZioKiller · Post by **ZioKiller** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:39 pm

Vstream wrote: I still don't understand Sm pro choose such a slow processor. It could have been
HUGE with a fast processor and less noisy outputs.

Totally agree.

Not only the CPU is way too slow for optimal audio performance, but the audio outputs are noisy.
I'm getting more and more disappointed by this device, but I don't regret buying it and I surely will find a use for it.

Rather than a CPU upgrade, I expect a version 2 with a special tradeoff for v.1 owners with, say, a 75% rebate.

Like I said before, I suspect that part of the low performance is due to the virtual machine running on linux. Maybe a native Windows OS would give more power, who knows...

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:21 pm

Well, Windows XP embedded would probably be a better choice, since it's highly configurable.

Vstream · Post by **Vstream** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:42 pm

Well, Windows XP embedded would probably be a better choice, since it's highly configurable.

With Windows embedded the Vmachine performance might slightly be better but still way to low running several vsti's.

One of the reasons I bought the Vmachine was because it was running linux as OS and not windows as it is rather unstable and unreliable ....but....

it looks like Brainspawn Forte is rock solid (even on vista!), I ran the 24 hour stress test running several plug ins at the same time and it didn't crash once!
It's easy to configure, loads fxb soundbanks, you can assign keyboard zones with a learn function and I can use a foot pedal to switch between the 'scenes'. Put this in a updated Vmachine Dual Core and release it as a module and affordable keyboard.

I wonder what Muse Research will release in a few months time.

Tony Ostinato · Post by **Tony Ostinato** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:51 pm

theres probably some prudent logic behind it all, this is a breakthru device so theres risk of overinvesting when youre just at the stage of testing the waters.

waters are tested now, im sure theyve made some money and can think about rolling out a more powerful unit.

as it is tho, v-machine still wins the round in its weight class only because nobody else is showin up for quite awhile.

im thinkin about one just to run angstrolooper live. is there any kind of metronome indicator on the display that shows the tempo of its system clock? does it do tempo control? be way cool to have a nice flashing metronome with adjustable timebase.

Selfik · Post by **Selfik** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:29 am

Vstream wrote:I still don't understand Sm pro choose such a slow processor. It could have been HUGE with a fast processor and less noisy outputs.

+1

gBeat2 · Post by **gBeat2** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:36 pm

Selfik wrote:
Vstream wrote:I still don't understand Sm pro choose such a slow processor. It could have been HUGE with a fast processor and less noisy outputs.
+1

+1

mäxchen · Post by **mäxchen** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:51 pm

hello rinoadamo,

i am sorry to hear that not all is fine. with this klicks or pops i cant help you. i only play the splendid piano in sfz and that why i know how to setup the sfz plugin... with the splendid piano i have no problems...

max

VFXAU · Post by **VFXAU** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:57 am

Vstream wrote:Most of pops & clicks on the V-machine are the result of a slow processor.

I installed XP on a older PC (P3 1Ghz,512 Mb) running Brainspawn Forte and as USB audio interface a cheap Behringer UCA202.
Configuration is comparable with the Vmachine.

I did some testing and with a 8ms latency, vsti's like P8 have 6 note polyphony on the windows PC but only 2 or 1 note polyphony on the Vmachine running the same sounds.

A vsti player like the Vmachine should be capable of running 4 vsti's at the same time with 16 note polyphony to be useful live on stage. Now it's only useful as a monosynth like in the old days.

I still don't understand Sm pro choose such a slow processor. It could have been
HUGE with a fast processor and less noisy outputs.

Sorry, but I send mine back.

I need to just in here and disagree with you totally on some aspects.
1. I will test this on a system comparable and I will let you know the results as I would also like to make sure we are getting the most out of it.

2. your line here:
A vsti player like the Vmachine should be capable of running 4 vsti's at the same time with 16 note polyphony to be useful live on stage. Now it's only useful as a monosynth like in the old days.

Common... you know very well that it can do this, it depends on the plugins you are using... a MONOSYNTH? we have 100's of plugins which work very well on the V-Machine and the vendor support is growing daily. I don't mind you saying you want a more powerfull processor as others do, but to say it is only usefull as a mono synth is generalising too much here as all other owners know. It is still a performance tool, even just as a sample playback device (running 16-32 note polyphony) or a VOCODER or a great Organ, Electric Piano etc, it is worth it.. Plugins which are written well, like NI for example Pro53, B4, FM8, also work extremely well.

VFXAU · Post by **VFXAU** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:00 am

Tony Ostinato wrote:theres probably some prudent logic behind it all, this is a breakthru device so theres risk of overinvesting when youre just at the stage of testing the waters.

waters are tested now, im sure theyve made some money and can think about rolling out a more powerful unit.

as it is tho, v-machine still wins the round in its weight class only because nobody else is showin up for quite awhile.

im thinkin about one just to run angstrolooper live. is there any kind of metronome indicator on the display that shows the tempo of its system clock? does it do tempo control? be way cool to have a nice flashing metronome with adjustable timebase.

Tempo control is fully assignable to controllers, next revision will also have External MIDI tempo sync, good idea about the temp indication, I will add it to the TO DO list.

raintalk · Post by **raintalk** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:45 am

DragonSagoth wrote:Well, Windows XP embedded would probably be a better choice, since it's highly configurable.

I don't mean to hijack this thread.
But is there any information on running VST, VSTi under XPe someplace?
Does asio or asio4all work?

Tony Ostinato · Post by **Tony Ostinato** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:49 am

good idea about the temp indication, I will add it to the TO DO list.

thanks, i take a lotta shots so i get lucky now and then.

between angstrolooper which i heard does run and maybe mobius and other looper plugins this could be a cool looper box.

janka · Post by **janka** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:56 am

ptsound wrote:Hi,
Very disappointed with my v-machine. Took it to it's first gig with Truepianos trial loaded (efficiently without the sympathetic resonances)
It was a jazz duo gig with a vocalist and the v-machine choked 3 or 4 times in the 1st set and so I was forced to switch it off and go back to my
kurzweil micropiano module.

CPU upgrade is a neccessity.

Sometime ago i read a post from Sm Pro asking what we'd be willing to pay for
CPU upgrades..
How about you(SM Pro) tell us what your cost would be for delivering the upgrades.
I think cost price would be fair. Different prices for different upgrades.
Personally I'd want to pay enough to run Truepianos OR Pianoteq without clicks, pops, choking sounds and without limits for that software.
What would I pay?
Whatever it fairly, honestly costs you (Sm Pro) to offer it.
C'mon guys.. let's see some action.
P.T

With TruePianos-reverb turned off I still haven't been able to make it choke. But then of course, reverb is sort of nice....

Vstream · Post by **Vstream** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:11 am

Common... you know very well that it can do this, it depends on the plugins you are using... a MONOSYNTH? we have 100's of plugins which work very well on the V-Machine and the vendor support is growing daily. I don't mind you saying you want a more powerfull processor as others do, but to say it is only useful as a mono synth is generalising too much here as all other owners know. It is still a performance tool, even just as a sample playback device (running 16-32 note polyphony) or a VOCODER or a great Organ, Electric Piano etc, it is worth it.. Plugins which are written well, like NI for example Pro53, B4, FM8, also work extremely well.

Sorry, maybe I'm a little to hard and the Vmachine can be a useful vsti player with the right plugins with 16-32 polyphony.
Some virtual analog vsti's run at at 8 note polyphony and it is useful as a Sample playback device.
SM pro support is excellent and congratulations releasing something a lot of people were waiting for.

BUT:

An idea: Publish a list with compatible plugins and it's polyphony so every potential
buyer can decide if the Vmachine satisfies or not.[/color]
cause I don't think the information on SM pro Website is entirely correct.

From the Sm Pro website:

"External hardware host for Windows plugins (VST instruments and effects)"
Agree, a lot is compatible.

"Banks, presets (incl. chaining, layering, splitting) can be edited with the V-Machine or the host software"
Agree

"Create synth layers and chain them with effects"
??? With this processor???

"Connect nearly every MIDI-Controller to the V-Machine"
Agree, this works trouble-free

"Multiple VSTi's can be combined"
??? With this processor???

"MIDI learn functions included"
Agree, this works trouble-free

"All effect and synth chains can be switched very fast for instant playing"
No comment here

"USB-Ports for external peripherals"
No comment here

"Use software samplers and stream its content from any USB drive"
The included sampletank cannot stream even if you upgrade! It's also not capable of loading your own samples!

One question:

I invite everyone to try the crystal synth. It's capable of using sf2 files as a source too.
It's printed on Sm Pro's Vmachine flyer, website, hardwarebox so I presume this is a

Plugins which are written well

http://www.greenoak.com/crystal
How much polyphony at max before processor clipping occurs?

And finally:

I would have payed 1000 Euro (1000-2000 Euro less compared with a receptor pro) for a Vmachine comparable with the Sony Vaio laptop I'm using now.
It's a dual core, 4 Gb RAM, 300 Gb HD running Brainspawn forte, 4 vsti's with lot's of polyhony at the same time.

amiga909 · Post by **amiga909** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:12 am

Tony Ostinato wrote:
good idea about the temp indication, I will add it to the TO DO list.
thanks, i take a lotta shots so i get lucky now and then.

between angstrolooper which i heard does run and maybe mobius and other looper plugins this could be a cool looper box.

the potential of the v-machine is great indeed. price and size are perfectly suited for many kewl audio setups

personally I was very excited at first, by now I've dismissed the wish of getting one. vmachine's crap display and weak cpu is saving costs at the wrong part. imho, a vst player should be editable standalone (coz on stage u will have ur computer at home), no fan noise,
on the other hand it could be a very smart solution for just one vst plugin - like playing a hammond organ or DJ mixing.

I'll sure have an eye on the upcoming v-rack