I second this, but... I'd pay 600-700 € for a V-Machine that's the same in size, has 4 GB DDR2 RAM, 2.2 GHz Intel Core2Duo, and a 32 GB solidstate disk (I find this enough for my needs).Vstream wrote:And finally:
I would have payed 1000 Euro (1000-2000 Euro less compared with a receptor pro) for a Vmachine comparable with the Sony Vaio laptop I'm using now.
It's a dual core, 4 Gb RAM, 300 Gb HD running Brainspawn forte, 4 vsti's with lot's of polyhony at the same time.
V-Machine
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- KVRAF
- 24430 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
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- KVRian
- 1297 posts since 17 Aug, 2003 from Italy
The mistake is to compare the V-Machine to a consumer level computer.
Why SM chose a so slow CPU? Because this device was made by a Company that does embedded systems for the health and medical industry (eg. machines for CT, PET, X-rays, etc.), and in that field they don't have access to the same technology of the consumer market. For example, a 1 GHz Celeron CPU is still a standard for them, but a modern Dual Core is not.
I bet they had to choose what *that* market had to offer. And the 1 GHz Celeron was probably the best compromise for price, size and heat.
Dual Core CPUs are available in modern embedded systems, but require more space and likely won't fit inside the small V-Machine enclosure.
Why SM chose a so slow CPU? Because this device was made by a Company that does embedded systems for the health and medical industry (eg. machines for CT, PET, X-rays, etc.), and in that field they don't have access to the same technology of the consumer market. For example, a 1 GHz Celeron CPU is still a standard for them, but a modern Dual Core is not.
I bet they had to choose what *that* market had to offer. And the 1 GHz Celeron was probably the best compromise for price, size and heat.
Dual Core CPUs are available in modern embedded systems, but require more space and likely won't fit inside the small V-Machine enclosure.
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- KVRist
- 175 posts since 27 Aug, 2002 from Sweden
I see you mention some great NI-plugins here. What about Electrik and Akuostik Piano? Polyphony?VFXAU wrote:Plugins which are written well, like NI for example Pro53, B4, FM8, also work extremely well.
/Anders
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- KVRAF
- 24430 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
It's also the choice that killed V-Machine's versatility and possibility to run all possible VST plugins fairly good.ZioKiller wrote:I bet they had to choose what *that* market had to offer. And the 1 GHz Celeron was probably the best compromise for price, size and heat.
If SM Pro Audio signed a deal with Intel for a 3-year reserved production of (now obsolete already) E4400 dualcores (I have one in my PC, and I'm rather satisfied), they would have the necessary spare parts (as was before mentioned that was obligatory) and the V-Machine would have a stellar performance. Maybe the dimensions would be A BIT bigger to accomodate a Zalman fan, for example, to keep the noise low and CPU cool.
I think that what I have said has some weight.
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- KVRian
- 1297 posts since 17 Aug, 2003 from Italy
I think they should rely on some millions of units sold for such a deal with Intel. I don't think Intel would keep the production of CPUs for a few thousands of units... And also I don't think SMPRO will sell millions of V-Machine... I wish them so, but c'mon... let's keep our feet on the ground...DragonSagoth wrote: If SM Pro Audio signed a deal with Intel for a 3-year reserved production of E4400 dualcores
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- KVRAF
- 24430 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Well, they could do a one-off waffer run of E4400s, with some... say, 10000-50000 units? That would be enough to sell and have spare parts.
I mean, those deals sound reasonable to me. Intel is a big company, but I doubt they would require millions of sold units. I think they would settle for a "Intel Inside" sticker on a V-Machine just enough.
I mean, those deals sound reasonable to me. Intel is a big company, but I doubt they would require millions of sold units. I think they would settle for a "Intel Inside" sticker on a V-Machine just enough.
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- KVRist
- 90 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Belgium
yes, or 64 Gb. This is more than enough.and a 32 GB solidstate disk (I find this enough for my needs).
Without a laptop's TFT screen, Keyboard, Hard drive, firewire interface, bluetooth interface and graphical chip, triple folded it would not be any bigger.Dual Core CPUs are available in modern embedded systems, but require more space and likely won't fit inside the small V-Machine enclosure.
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
yeah at that point get a laptop, lol.possibility to run all possible VST plugins fairly good.
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- KVRAF
- 24430 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
No, I'm just saying that V-Machine had the potential to be an AWESOME product. It ended up to be a mediocre one, just for the sake of low-profile CPU it uses. Of course it will bring up disappointment to those who wanted to take their modelled piano (Pianoteq) on the road, for affordable money. We'll see what the CPU upgrade will do.Tony Ostinato wrote:yeah at that point get a laptop, lol.possibility to run all possible VST plugins fairly good.
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
i think its easy to be over optimistic on what is possible vs what is practical and what is doable, to swing anything like this onto the market takes a lot of choices and compromises dictated by harsh realities.
i think it speaks volumes theres nothing else like it around, at least not yet, so they win simply by being first and therefore best.
any fool would agree more power would be good, but it will never be enough.
i think it speaks volumes theres nothing else like it around, at least not yet, so they win simply by being first and therefore best.
any fool would agree more power would be good, but it will never be enough.
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- KVRist
- 390 posts since 4 Dec, 2008
[quote="janka']
With TruePianos-reverb turned off I still haven't been able to make it choke. But then of course, reverb is sort of nice....
[/quote]
You may want to try and use a VST reverb after the piano plugin and see how that goes, something like Classic Reverb.
With TruePianos-reverb turned off I still haven't been able to make it choke. But then of course, reverb is sort of nice....
[/quote]You may want to try and use a VST reverb after the piano plugin and see how that goes, something like Classic Reverb.
The sun is going to shine in the morning, at least above the clouds.
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- KVRist
- 390 posts since 4 Dec, 2008
It is not so much as just size,ZioKiller wrote:The mistake is to compare the V-Machine to a consumer level computer.
Why SM chose a so slow CPU? Because this device was made by a Company that does embedded systems for the health and medical industry (eg. machines for CT, PET, X-rays, etc.), and in that field they don't have access to the same technology of the consumer market. For example, a 1 GHz Celeron CPU is still a standard for them, but a modern Dual Core is not.
I bet they had to choose what *that* market had to offer. And the 1 GHz Celeron was probably the best compromise for price, size and heat.
Dual Core CPUs are available in modern embedded systems, but require more space and likely won't fit inside the small V-Machine enclosure.
1. Life cycle, consumer CPU's change every 2-3 months, then we cannot buy spare parts, we cannot upgrade easily, if in 2 years you dropped your V-Machine and it smashed, using a standard CPU means you would throw it in the bin, same as you would a normal laptop, we have a 3 years parts availability program.
2. Power and heat (you can't just stick a cpu in a box), in the size which the V-Machine is and for our strict testing in temperatures up-to 50C technically we could only use something which works up-to 12-14 Watt.
Have a quick look here http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/IntelPowerConsumption.htm
You will see what I mean, most of these CPU's would burn up.
3. we had to create special applications for the V-Machine, Windows and MAC (yes I know MAC is late).. fix lots of nice bugs, keep working on the applications until they are rock solid as the hardware is.
Many other technical reasons exist, I will quietly tell you that a CPU BOARD upgrade will be available in a few months and that any original buyer would not be penalized by the upgade, if the difference is $100 in retail then that would be the difference you would also pay if you own an original unit (maybe $5-10 in postage at worst).
The sun is going to shine in the morning, at least above the clouds.
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- KVRist
- 390 posts since 4 Dec, 2008
Wafer run... 10-50K... please send me the details, no one will talk to you unless you want to do 100K wafer run.. please don't compare consumer levels in the millions of units to our pro audio industry 1000's of units.DragonSagoth wrote:Well, they could do a one-off waffer run of E4400s, with some... say, 10000-50000 units? That would be enough to sell and have spare parts.
I mean, those deals sound reasonable to me. Intel is a big company, but I doubt they would require millions of sold units. I think they would settle for a "Intel Inside" sticker on a V-Machine just enough.
E4400 emits over 65watts... sure we can make a larger box.. but then it would not fit on most keyboards for starters..
In any case, I am not here to disagree with you about wanting more power, that is a given. I am here to help get as much done with the V-Machine as we can, and we can do a hell of allot with them at the moment.
I take all suggestions on board.
The sun is going to shine in the morning, at least above the clouds.
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- KVRist
- 390 posts since 4 Dec, 2008
It is interesting to note, that every vendor at the NAMM show wants to get thier plugins working on the V-Machine, as they also can see the potential for this, including PianoTeq..DragonSagoth wrote:No, I'm just saying that V-Machine had the potential to be an AWESOME product. It ended up to be a mediocre one, just for the sake of low-profile CPU it uses. Of course it will bring up disappointment to those who wanted to take their modelled piano (Pianoteq) on the road, for affordable money. We'll see what the CPU upgrade will do.Tony Ostinato wrote:yeah at that point get a laptop, lol.possibility to run all possible VST plugins fairly good.
The sun is going to shine in the morning, at least above the clouds.
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- KVRist
- 175 posts since 27 Aug, 2002 from Sweden
DragonSagoth wrote:No, I'm just saying that V-Machine had the potential to be an AWESOME product. It ended up to be a mediocre one, just for the sake of low-profile CPU it uses.
Give the guys a break. The V is already great for a lot of stuff and with the CPU-upgrade it will be all I ever asked for./anders