Oddity 2

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Oddity2

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emdot_ambient wrote: I got what you said the first time, only I don't know that it's accurate. I'm not a synth programmer, maybe you are, but it seems to me you don't need an entirely different synth engine to do duophonic. Obviously you don't for mono/poly, as it's a standard feature on most synths. Duophonic mode to me doesn't sound like it would take a whole new synth archetecture, but rather just a script to tell the synth which oscillator to play at any given time.
OK, let me try again. No i'm not a synth programmer, it's not about synth programming. It's about how the circuits in the original synth are wired. The Duo mode on the Odyssey for instance is NOT just two note polyphony - it is different to the OSCar for instance, which is why, although OSCar was duophonic too, it was 'easy' (*ahem*) to make it polyphonic without changing the intrinsic character.

What is being asked for in a polyhonic Oddity is like getting a real Odyssey opening it up and rewiring it. If you have Oddity try it in duo mode. Play a note - now hit a second note. Often it'll do some weird feedback, grungy sound rather than just play a second note. i have some presets which show this off. Now do the same on impOSCar - what you get is one note, then a second note. That's it, they're not interacting in the same manner.

Also it's not just the Duo mode that would be affected. i will have to check the old threads at planet z, but i seem to remember the S&H had to be routed differently, as did the auto trigger and maybe some other things changed, like the four-note legato trick.

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Dave Blakely wrote:I'm neither a synth purist or a preset user i never said i was either, i also never said Albino was crap, i said the majority of patches for it were...but thats beside the point...
If it was beside the point, why did you point to it as an example of how having a lot of lovely features makes a synth less than desireable? I can't see how I could read what you wrote to mean anything but that.
Dave Blakely wrote:...id rather have quality than quantity.
Oddity as it stands to me is qualityp
So if it's already quality, how does adding more voices make it less quality? :shrug: Your arguments are really confusing.
Dave Blakely wrote:i also stand by what i said about polyphony making it a different instrument
Now, how is that not being a purist?
Dave Blakely wrote:...this all comes down to how you view synths, to me they fall into several categories, workhorses that try to cover all bases and specialise in none, specifics that specialise in several areas (i include Oddity in this category)...
And here's how I view synths...I respect products like M-Tron and Oddity that try to accurately recreate vintage classics. Kudos to them. But if you can have that same emulation PLUS convenient and useful options (like looped samples, layers, extended envelopes and FX like they added on M-Tron Pro; or polyphony plus whatever else for Oddity 2)...Then have at it. It does absolutely nothing to stop you from using the older product. It does not force you to use the new features if you don't want.
Dave Blakely wrote:Oddity can be improved don't get me wrong, the patch loading system for a start...
:uhuhuh: It should never have had patches in the first place. That's a modern convenience that makes Oddity a totally different instrument than the original Odyssey. And anyway, there are already a lot of other synths that do that well, why should all synths have the same features? Sorry, couldn't help myself! :wink:
Dave Blakely wrote:...id also like to see an arp sequencer attached and maybe a switchable filter system between the first Moog style filter and the latter Arp one but i dont know how practicle that would be, you'd need to ask the Ohmmies about that, so yeah id like to see it evolve myself, but polyphony?
Those are all good features I'd love to see.
Dave Blakely wrote:Oh yeah and that dance fraternity that bought Dx7's and never got to know them further than Lately Bass.......they should have been slapped as well :wink:
Yeah, buddy! Whack 'em GOOD!

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Mr Arkadin wrote:OK, let me try again. No i'm not a synth programmer, it's not about synth programming.
Uh, yeah. Actually it is. It's a software synth, not hardware. So yes, it is all about programming if, as you said, a poly mode would require a "whole new synth engine".
Mr Arkadin wrote:It's about how the circuits in the original synth are wired.
No, it's about how the software emulates those. You're not a synth programmer. Neither am I. So how can you tell me that it would be so hard? I can't tell you it wouldn't be that hard, either, but there just might be a little tiny difference between rewireing a hardware analog synth to be polyphonic (as in having to duplicate all modules for every voice) and programming software to allocate more than one voice.
Mr Arkadin wrote:The Duo mode on the Odyssey for instance is NOT just two note polyphony
Yeah, I think you can take it as read that we all got that from your first post.
Mr Arkadin wrote:What is being asked for in a polyhonic Oddity is like getting a real Odyssey opening it up and rewiring it.
No. No, not really. I'm pretty damn sure it's not quite the same thing.
Mr Arkadin wrote:If you have Oddity try it in duo mode. Play a note - now hit a second note...Now do the same on impOSCar - what you get is one note, then a second note. That's it, they're not interacting in the same manner.
Yeah, because when you're in Duo mode, you're really in mono mode but the first key you strike triggers only Osc1 and the second note you play triggers Osc2...or however the Oddity does it. That requires no code changes becase it's already like that in Oddity. For polyphony seems like you simply have to allow simultaneous voices to be played, just like every other software synth does it. Flip the switch to Duo and you're back to what we have now.

Software synths do not actually have multiple oscillators for each voice of polyphony. A 6-voice hardware analog synth with two oscillators actually has 12 oscillators, one for each voice. That's not replicated in software.

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Mr Arkadin wrote:
emdot_ambient wrote: I got what you said the first time, only I don't know that it's accurate. I'm not a synth programmer, maybe you are, but it seems to me you don't need an entirely different synth engine to do duophonic. Obviously you don't for mono/poly, as it's a standard feature on most synths. Duophonic mode to me doesn't sound like it would take a whole new synth archetecture, but rather just a script to tell the synth which oscillator to play at any given time.
OK, let me try again. No i'm not a synth programmer, it's not about synth programming. It's about how the circuits in the original synth are wired. The Duo mode on the Odyssey for instance is NOT just two note polyphony - it is different to the OSCar for instance, which is why, although OSCar was duophonic too, it was 'easy' (*ahem*) to make it polyphonic without changing the intrinsic character.

What is being asked for in a polyhonic Oddity is like getting a real Odyssey opening it up and rewiring it. If you have Oddity try it in duo mode. Play a note - now hit a second note. Often it'll do some weird feedback, grungy sound rather than just play a second note. i have some presets which show this off. Now do the same on impOSCar - what you get is one note, then a second note. That's it, they're not interacting in the same manner.

Also it's not just the Duo mode that would be affected. i will have to check the old threads at planet z, but i seem to remember the S&H had to be routed differently, as did the auto trigger and maybe some other things changed, like the four-note legato trick.
This whole argument just doesn't make any sense to me. Since the Oddity is software, adding a polyphonic mode wouldn't necessitate ANY changes whatsoever in its monophonic and duophonic behavior. There's no actual wires (obviously), so there's no need to commit to one fixed wiring. (There could also be a polyphonic extension of the duophonic mode, sort of like the inter-voice ringmod in Symptohm:Melohman, but I suspect a more conventional polyphonic mode would be a nicer addition to have.)
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PaulSC wrote:
This whole argument just doesn't make any sense to me. Since the Oddity is software, adding a polyphonic mode wouldn't necessitate ANY changes whatsoever in its monophonic and duophonic behavior. There's no actual wires (obviously), so there's no need to commit to one fixed wiring. (There could also be a polyphonic extension of the duophonic mode, sort of like the inter-voice ringmod in Symptohm:Melohman, but I suspect a more conventional polyphonic mode would be a nicer addition to have.)
Which brings me back to what i originally said - there would have to be two distinct engines for this work - you cannot simply add polyphony to the current Oddity architecture - in the same way that you can't add polyphony to a real Odyssey, remember they modelled the hardware, not some idealised version of the hardware, so it has the same limits.

i already descibed Creamware's (now Sonic|Core's) Prodyssey and how they had to change the architecture to make it polyphonic and that in doing so they had to lose duo mode. It's already been done. i've heard it. It sounds different. Not bad, different. i'm not against a poly mode, but to suggest you can just add more notes to Oddity is not understanding what they modelled or how they modelled it.

Oh, i give up.

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All of a sudden i've lost the will to live..........zzzzzzzzzz :lol:

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From what I recall of the demo (I own a Mk III, so getting a virtual one hasn't been a priority for me) is that the there's already one significant improvement over the original synth: the coarse tuning range corresponds to standard octaves, whereas on a real Odyssey, it is a stiff and difficult-to-set slider that covers the entire audio range over a range of about 2". Oh, and the "fine tuning" slider next to it? That covers over an octave on the real deal. ARPs might be quite stable for tuning as far as early analogs go, but it's no small task to actually *get them in tune* in the first place. There was even a freeware SE clone which faithfully recreated this user-hostile "feature".

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Oddity was so good all it ever needed was PPC and maybe some internal oversampling.

Instead of wasting time on a polyphonic Oddity, Gforce should do an ARP Solina emulation just as good as they did the Odyssey.
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Why you want to play chords? You some sort of piano player or something! Duophonic is perfect, one note for each hand.
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electro wrote:Instead of wasting time on a polyphonic Oddity, Gforce should do an ARP Solina emulation just as good as they did the Odyssey.
After all their development on VSM I seriously doubt they'll do a software version of a string synth...why compete with themselves in the same market?

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Mr Arkadin wrote:...remember they modelled the hardware, not some idealised version of the hardware, so it has the same limits.
No, they modeled the circuit boards' components, as in they replicated how those circuits would work and then calc the result in software. They did not write one piece of code for Osc 1 and another for Osc 2 and literally patch them together. Once you have an oscillator coded in software it can pump out as many notes as your CPU can handle...or it can be limited to conserve CPU or adhere to your design specs.
Mr Arkadin wrote:Oh, i give up.
Good. Can Haz Polyfonny Now? :D

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Mr Arkadin wrote:...Creamware's (now Sonic|Core's) Prodyssey and how they had to change the architecture to make it polyphonic...
Wait...are you talking about the Prodyssey ASB? If so, that's not a softsynth, it's a hardware analog modeled synth and it does have physical connections inside between various PCB. That's possibly a totally different beast when it comes to the implementation of changes like we're talking. I'm not doubting you heard something to that effect about it. But we're not talking about that. Oddity is done 100% in code.

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emdot_ambient wrote:
Mr Arkadin wrote:Oh, i give up.
Good. Can Haz Polyfonny Now? :D

NO!!! and i'm gonna ask them to take away the Duophony as well Mr smarty pants, yeah, lesee ya explain that to all yer high fallutin modern pianny playing chord foisterin compadres.... eh? what? you ARE making a polyphoinic vers......erm....right ok......... Bye!! :shock:

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Right last one before bed.
emdot_ambient wrote:
Mr Arkadin wrote:...remember they modelled the hardware, not some idealised version of the hardware, so it has the same limits.
No, they modeled the circuit boards' components, as in they replicated how those circuits would work and then calc the result in software. They did not write one piece of code for Osc 1 and another for Osc 2 and literally patch them together. Once you have an oscillator coded in software it can pump out as many notes as your CPU can handle...or it can be limited to conserve CPU or adhere to your design specs.
Actually you've just proved my point against being able to easily employ polyphony. If they did have a virtual circuit for Osc 1, Osc2, Filter etc. you could have a sub-engine that bypassed the mono/duo function, switched to a poly engine then back into the existing filter for instance. Everyone is missing the point that Osc2 reacts differently if you are already playing Osc1 - it's not simply Osc1 plays first note, Osc2 two plays second note. Just try it ffs. i'm not against polyphony, i'm just saying it's not as easy as you think to make this particular synth polyphonic. GForce also spent time putting in the four-note legato 'feature' (actually a fault of the design). This would have to be lost in polyphonic mode, so would require a different set of code to the mono/duo mode.
emdot_ambient wrote: Wait...are you talking about the Prodyssey ASB? If so, that's not a softsynth, it's a hardware analog modeled synth and it does have physical connections inside between various PCB. That's possibly a totally different beast when it comes to the implementation of changes like we're talking. I'm not doubting you heard something to that effect about it. But we're not talking about that. Oddity is done 100% in code.
i'm talking about Prodyssey, which in my case runs on a Scope DSP card, but also has a boxed version (the ASB). The hardware version runs on a DSP exactly like the Scope version - it's all code running on a Sharc DSP chip - by definition this is how all modelled synths are, otherwise they're not modelled but something else. A Virus synth for instance runs on a chip (Motorola?) and is all code. They just happen to be in boxes with knobs on.

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electro wrote:Oddity was so good all it ever needed was PPC and maybe some internal oversampling.
Agreed! Rather than worrying about extra features, I'd rather just have the current one get closer to sounding like the real thing. The best would be to have a "white face" mode to emulate the sound of a different era Oddysey since they all sounded different. Oddity doesn't sound anything like the Oddysey I had (which was ridiculously good, better than either of the 2600's I had) but maybe it sounds exactly like a different version.
Instead of wasting time on a polyphonic Oddity, Gforce should do an ARP Solina emulation just as good as they did the Odyssey.
What about Virtual String Machine?

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