zebra academic pricing

[elxsound]

@Mose...
You really interpreted Urs' reasoning as justification for buying toilet paper at the same price that a business buys in bulk?

Excluding non-academics from any form of such rebate system is a calculating and unfair thing.

Bro, I read his post and read yours. I questioned your logic and still do, as your reasoning is more creative than logical.

[mose]

However I disagree with your statement about poor teaching institutions. Germany does also not have the concept of an elite university (see Harvard) and only because the divide between rich and poor is (in this example at least) higher in the US than here doesn't change the common case.

Fair enough. My point is that a business can make the decision to have only one price for a product because that is the best choice for the business at the time. The economic status of a particular group does not really play a role, because a marketing decision is being made not to target any groups, if you understand what I mean.

[mose]

I think this illustrates the idea behind academic licenses

You picked the epitome of branding in the US. Branding is interwoven into our culture. Everyone wants to be part of something great, and if you use that brand, you can be on that "team". I remember when some of my German friends expressed great surprise that we would wear a shirt or hat with a business logo on it. They would buy a shirt to wear, not advertise for a company. I was just as surprised at their reaction, but it helped me see how pervasive branding is.

[cwig]

Right. Should the unemployed get a discount too? What about people working minimum wage jobs? What about old age pensioners?

...everything to do with mass marketing to a (targeted) group that is more likely to use the software in a future job than Joe factory worker.

So the educational discount should be limited to music students only?

[MitchK1989]

Right. Should the unemployed get a discount too? What about people working minimum wage jobs? What about old age pensioners?

...everything to do with mass marketing to a (targeted) group that is more likely to use the software in a future job than Joe factory worker.

So the educational discount should be limited to music students only?

Some companies do that (pianoteq, for example).

I dunno, I just know that here in Canada I would have a lot more money right now if I were working instead of going to school, and most people here have heavy amounts of debt while in school... I really have no opinion one way or the other on whether student discounts SHOULD exist, I just know that they do, so when making purchasing decisions I have to compare full price U-HE products to half-price fabfilter/NI/whatever products (and the U-He products usually still win, but the price hurts, which is why I still don't have the most expensive U-He product... Zebra. I picked up filterscape awhile back with some extra cash I made as an extra in a movie, and picked up uhbik when it was on special for $99... I'm afraid I had to sell my hardware synths awhile back to pay for school, so I no longer qualify for the dino crossgrade unless I pay $200 or whatever for a cut down version of photoshop to make a fake with, which isn't good finances to save $50...)

[Notron User]

http://aviary.com/home

free browser based photoshopping app (image editing with layers).

[mcnoone]

http://aviary.com/home
free browser based photoshopping app (image editing with layers).

Yes but if we suck at photoshop, we won't be able to make the sign look real enouph.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246075

[Funkasizer]

True. I've done that for a couple of years while I developed Zebra 1.0. Kept me up and running and fortunately left me with enough space to get going. However, (talking German universities here) even the most simple career in academics for someone with a degree (diploma, magister, engineer) is almost twice as much as any non-graduate of the same age. For two thirds of the time and basically no mental stress. I've never heard of anyone being sacked from a university job. Academic career is different from private sector in many ways. It's got pros and cons, but non of these IMHO justify a special treatment to give them an advantage over non-academics, or to compensate for any disadvantage.

I'm sorry, it gives me the creeps when professors send me emails asking for edu discounts. How nuts is that? An average professor in Germany earns probably twice of my income, and has bult-in health care plus old age pension. Thinking that working as an academic is "something better" than doing anything else or even "worth subsidizing" is delusional. What makes anyone think that academics or students are in worse circumstances than the rest of the world?!? That's utter bullshit. What about nurses, streetworkers or challenged people?!?

Sheesh.

As I said, the whole edu discount thing is made up by companies to infiltrate elites. E.g. any graphics designer who was pampered by Adobe during his studies and who then starts a successful advertisement company will put dozens of Id/Ps/Ai/In licenses on their company machines. If only 1 out of 5 edu licenses creates 4 more licenses in the future, their calculation worked out. Like any rebate system, it's about customer binding. Make no mistake, companies don't give you the discount because you're poor, they give you the discount because you're potentially rich a year or two ahead. Stuff like that suppresses the freedom of choice.

I find this terrible. Excluding non-academics from any form of such rebate system is a calculating and unfair thing. The reason isn't altruism at all. It's not like they do it because they sympathise with poor students. Wake up. It's about abusing the economic situation of students to enforce long term revenue streams. No more no less. Like it or not, I don't want to take part in that particular game. I have an allergy against it.

Urs

Urs, I do not want to get involved in the discussion of whether or not software developers should give academic discounts and whether or not academics deserve such special treatment. However, I am very disappointed by the harsh, judgemental, and prejudiced way you write about academics. Being an assistant professor in the Netherlands, I work my ass off to do research, publish papers, teach students, and get funding, all this for a salary that is low in comparison with jobs in the private sector. Yet according to you, I am a rich elite who has a job with little mental stress, needs to work only two thirds the time of other jobs, and what's more, who will never get fired. And if I would ask you for an academic discount, I give you the creeps. I find this very disappointing. For me, it takes away the pleasure of using Zebra and Uhbik.

[Cordelia]

I applaud Urs' refusal to offer special academic discounts.
I think there should be special discounts for nurses, those who work with disabled children, sanitation engineers, and hookers. Those are some tough jobs.

[Urs]

@Funkasizer:

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm pretty sure that many academics work their asses off for an income that's half of what they would get in the private sector. I don't know how an assistant professor compares to a professor, but I guess it's still a decent income compared to the average musician.

I've been a student for eight years myself and it was a pretty easy time. Then I started a company which was hilarious, economically ruining and mind wrecking. Even good concepts include high risks. For almost two years I could hardly ever pay rent and I regularly had to borrow money from family & fiends for some food (my bank didn't give me any further credit). At some point this didin't work anymore, it was too much stress and too insecure. I went into research at university (BAT 2a scientific assistant, whatever that translates to anywhere else). Because of my degree I jumped in at higher earnings than any 60 year old secretary there. I recouped my debts from my previous endeavours within two years and spent all my free time developing software. Most professors attended university between one and three days a week. Assitants had to be there 40 hours, which we splat over 4 days, including research, papers and teaching. That's 3 days off a week.

That said I don't have anything against academics. Been there myself (as you can see I don't put my degree anywhere because it's meaningless outside of the academic domain). If academics think they're underpaid, then well, they should complain about the system instead of using that as an excuse. I certainly don't want to swap with a assistant surgeon on the emergency station of any public hospital though.

@Cordelia:

Thanks + agreed.

Urs

[Funkasizer]

@Funkasizer:

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm pretty sure that many academics work their asses off for an income that's half of what they would get in the private sector. I don't know how an assistant professor compares to a professor, but I guess it's still a decent income compared to the average musician.

I've been a student for eight years myself and it was a pretty easy time. Then I started a company which was hilarious, economically ruining and mind wrecking. Even good concepts include high risks. For almost two years I could hardly ever pay rent and I regularly had to borrow money from family & fiends for some food (my bank didn't give me any further credit). At some point this didin't work anymore, it was too much stress and too insecure. I went into research at university (BAT 2a scientific assistant, whatever that translates to anywhere else). Because of my degree I jumped in at higher earnings than any 60 year old secretary there. I recouped my debts from my previous endeavours within two years and spent all my free time developing software. Most professors attended university between one and three days a week. Assitants had to be there 40 hours, which we splat over 4 days, including research, papers and teaching. That's 3 days off a week.

That said I don't have anything against academics. Been there myself (as you can see I don't put my degree anywhere because it's meaningless outside of the academic domain). If academics think they're underpaid, then well, they should complain about the system instead of using that as an excuse. I certainly don't want to swap with a assistant surgeon on the emergency station of any public hospital though.

@Cordelia:

Thanks + agreed.

Urs

I have worked in academia for over 20 years and in 3 different countries (US, France, Netherlands), but I never encountered anything near the situation you describe. Just to be clear, I do not want to convince you that you should give educational discounts, I just resent the remarks you made, based on ill-construed generalizations, about a group of professionals to which I happen to belong. IMO you should refrain from making such statements in public.

As to the suggestion to give hookers a discount, I have nothing against their profession, but I think it is bad taste to put them on the same pedestal as professionals who work with disabled children.

[elxsound]

I applaud Urs' refusal to offer special academic discounts.
I think there should be special discounts for nurses, those who work with disabled children, sanitation engineers, and hookers. Those are some tough jobs.

+1

@ Funkasizer... It's not about pedestals, it's about tough jobs that generally don't pay well (except SOME hookers do get paid serious money). Mostly, I'm sure the hookers were added for sense of humor.

I think the point is a simple one... There are many reasons to justify why any certain group deserves a discount so instead of putting one group on a pedestal and then discriminating against others, there is a discount available to all.

The more the discussion continues, the more it's evident that there's really nothing different in terms of personal circumstance than any other career or life choice. The bottom line is that there are some who make a ton of money and there are some who don't. That seems pretty much in line with the rest of the global population.

By the way... I come from a family of educators and I can go on and on about the low pay (as my parents and siblings work in the public sector), but providing service to the community at low wages is not limited to educators, nor do ALL educators earn low wages (which I believe is Urs' point) and usually discounts are not provided to the academic community out of sympathy but instead are provided by way of marketing. That said, I don't really see why the conversation continues, recounting the plight of certain educators when they are not alone in terms of struggling economically, nor should single experiences be used to generalize the view of all educators when clearly that's not the case as already demonstrated from multiple postings. I also don't believe it was an issue of generalizing educators as being well off, but instead a point offered as a counter to previous posting which was necessary for painting a truer picture that includes multiple circumstances affecting those in academics.

[unangular]

...As to the suggestion to give hookers a discount, I have nothing against their profession, but I think it is bad taste to put them on the same pedestal as professionals who work with disabled children...

Hookers also work with disabled children. [?]

[Funkasizer]

...As to the suggestion to give hookers a discount, I have nothing against their profession, but I think it is bad taste to put them on the same pedestal as professionals who work with disabled children...

Hookers also work with disabled children. [?]

Not only that, they are also avid Zebra users.

[elxsound]

...As to the suggestion to give hookers a discount, I have nothing against their profession, but I think it is bad taste to put them on the same pedestal as professionals who work with disabled children...

Hookers also work with disabled children. [?]

I forgot... they're called "Pros" and I guess they are technically professionals, even if its not the most respected profession.