Muse Research

mrhudson · Post by **mrhudson** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:32 pm

Good afternoon,

I'm trying to figure out what kind of MIDI control device I need to buy to gain more control of the Receptor. I don't need a keyboard; my 88 weighted keyboard, kurzweil sp88, just has limited MIDI control, and I need a supplemental device.

I'm looking for something that would be able to control organ drawbars (9 sliders), has a bunch of knobs for cc mapping & effects control, etc.., and can send the required program change information in a straightforward manner that a MIDI newbie can handle (lsb, msb, etc., based on a read of the Receptor manual). Ideally, this thing wouldn't cost a fortune. (under $300) Again, I don't need keys - I already have the 88 key weighted controller, but if the perfect solution includes keys for a low cost that wouldn't hurt. But I'm really looking for just the MIDI control features. Any ideas or suggestions? Much appreciated!

I looked at the Novation Zero - looked perfect at first but it seemed to only be able to send MSB=0, which doesn't work with the Receptor's bank structure.

Acoutistic · Post by **Acoutistic** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:00 am

Take a look at an Evolution (M-Audio) UC33e. Inexpensive but fairly robustly built, 9 sliders (with available drawbar mode), 24 rotaries, and buttons & keypad, all individually programmable to different channel/CC/MSB/LSB. I've set up a comfy preset that controls 8 channels + master on Receptor plus pan & send where needed, and a couple of buttons programmed to send patch changes. Its been a homely workhorse for me. One minor drawback on the UC33 is that it does not do true MIDI-thru, so you'd probably need MIDI interface (at least a 2 in, 1 out) to connect your keyboard and the control surface to Receptor.

The Novation definitly did not work out for me. Turned out not to be possible to program buttons with MSB/LSB for patch change commands, which was a deal breaker.

good luck

Mark

mrhudson · Post by **mrhudson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:09 am

Sounds just like the thing! I had started checking out the axiom 61 but it seemed like "more" than what I needed (the keyboard isn't necessary). Thanks!

mrhudson · Post by **mrhudson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:37 am

Did you need to install any drivers with the UC33c on the Receptor?

demierra · Post by **demierra** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:44 am

Acoutistic wrote:One minor drawback on the UC33 is that it does not do true MIDI-thru, so you'd probably need MIDI interface (at least a 2 in, 1 out) to connect your keyboard and the control surface to Receptor.

Hi Mark,

Isn't that possible to connect the UC-33e to the Receptor using the USB? I don't remember, but I think I read something about it, that there was no need for any driver and that the UC-33e was working well with the USB connection on Receptor... maybe I'm wrong.

Does anyone know anything about that?

Demierra

Acoutistic · Post by **Acoutistic** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:47 pm

Hi all,

I've never tried to connect the UC33 to Receptor using USB, so I can't say whether it works or not. I have connected the UC33 to my laptop using USB - that works fine, and the UC33 WILL route MIDI from the MIDI-in port out through USB (just not from MIDI-in merged to MIDI-out). I have on occasion routed MIDI through the UC33 into the laptop via USB, which worked great.

The UC33 is class-compliant - don't believe I've ever installed drivers for it on my Mac, and drivers are not an issue on Receptor for me (since I connect to Receptor via MIDI).

I use an 8X8 MIDI interface (which is somewhat overkill for me) because I use several MIDI input sources (keyboard(s), UC33, Zendrum, foot pedal) that I want to send several places (Receptor, other modules, computer).

Hope this is helpful.

Mark

Acoutistic · Post by **Acoutistic** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:45 am

The UC33 works with Receptor when plugged into the Receptor's USB port. The setups I usually use work just fine, including patch changes. I did not install any drivers on Receptor to make this happen. Just plugged the UC33 into the Receptor USB port, pressed the button on the UC33 to send the MIDI output through USB, and bingo, it worked. And as a bonus, the Receptor powers the UC33 through the USB port, so one less wall wart.

There you have it.

Mark

plechem · Post by **plechem** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:11 am

Thanks for the helpful info Mark. Can you confirm that the UC33 merges MIDI-in data with its own controller data and outputs it through USB?

I'm assuming the setup would need to be
Keyboard MIDI-out > UC33 MIDI-in
UC33 USB > Receptor USB

If this works it would be my perfect setup!

Acoutistic · Post by **Acoutistic** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:53 pm

Hello again:

I can't confirm that it works. I'm using an old model UC33 (not a UC33e) and this may have messed with my results. It should work - and it worked on the Mac - but it didn't work on Receptor. Here's what the UC33e manual says:

The UC-33 can of course also interface with other MIDI devices. By default (I.e. when you switch the unit on), all controller data is sent out via the MIDI
output as well as the USB out.
If you want the MIDI output to act like a traditional USB-to-MIDI interface, just press the two buttons (SELECT and ASSIGN) that activate the MIDI
OUT from USB mode.
If you are using a host application which can pick up multiple input drivers, you will be able to use the UC-33's MIDI input and the UC-33 surface to
record MIDI data and send the whole lot out of the UC-33's MIDI output.
Important note: The UC-33 is not a MIDI THRU device and as such, MIDI data received at the UC-33's MIDI IN plug can never be sent directly to the UC-33's
MIDI OUT plug. However, if the UC-33 is connected via USB to a computer, data received at the MIDI IN can be transmitted to the MIDI OUT plug, since the data
is sent to the computer, and received back from the computer. MIDI OUT FROM USB mode must be engaged for this to occur.

Here's what I did: I plugged a MIDI cable into the MIDI-out jack on a keyboard, plugged it into the MIDI-in jack on the UC33, and connected the UC33 to the Receptor by USB. The Receptor sees the CC info coming from the UC33 (sliders & such) but did not see the Note on/off data from the keyboard. I thought that was strange, given what the manual said. So I tried it on the Mac and it worked fine. Mac saw both the data from the UC33 and the data from the keyboard passing through the UC33 out through the USB. Strange. So I plug the UC33 back into the USB on Receptor - and the Receptor couldn't see the UC33 until I shut down and restarted Receptor (triple click didn't work).

My advice would be to load up your Receptor, head to the nearest Guitar Center or wherever, and try before you buy. I'd also be a bit concerned that USB hot-swapping may not work so perfectly for this device on Receptor as it does on a Mac - don't know about that. The newer model UC33e (mine is just UC33) might work.

There you have it.

M

gregh1 · Post by **gregh1** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:26 pm

If you are using a host application which can pick up multiple input drivers, you will be able to use the UC-33's MIDI input and the UC-33 surface...

From that and Acoutistic's posts, it would seem that the UC-33 provides two drivers, the first of which is the surface, and the second is the MIDI input. Presumably, Receptor only sees the first when connected via USB.

WBRS · Post by **WBRS** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:03 am

I have a novation remote SL. I won't be using receptor live. I will always be using it threw uniwire. Will my SL have limitations,and are there any workarounds? Thanks wbrs

Acoutistic · Post by **Acoutistic** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:06 am

The programmable buttons on the Remote SL keyboards can not be programmed to send Patch Change + MSB + LSB in the way needed to access the Receptor's patches.. Sad but true - believe me, I tried. I talked with several people at Novation support, who all told me that it couldn't be done. Other keyboards can do this easily, but not the Remote SL.

WBRS · Post by **WBRS** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:04 pm

Thank you very much Acoustic. I am not a big midi guy and looks like I might have already made an expensive mistake. Outside of Patch Change could I still use the SL for every thing else(Automap etc.) and maybe a small controller for Patch Change and other things? thanks wbrs

Acoutistic · Post by **Acoutistic** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:33 am

Hello again,

Yes, sure you can use the Remote SL for everything but patch changes. You can program the sliders & rotaries to control the Receptor mixer or parameters inside your VSTs. It will take some tweaking to do this, but it is very possible. Novation makes a Remote SL editor program that makes the programming process simpler. You can download it from Novation if you don't have it.

I am very doubtful that the Novation Automap program will work directly with Receptor. The idea of Automap really appealed to me, but I was never successful in getting Automap to work reliably with my Mac (running Ableton Live).

You can certainly plug a cable from the MIDI-out of your Remote to the Receptor and make it do good things. However, I don't know if the Remote will talk to Receptor directly through the USB port. You mention that you're connecting to Receptor with Uniwire, so I assume you're connecting the Remote to your computer via USB. That can also work.

Yeah, you might want to get a little MIDI control surface with some programmable buttons to send out patch control messages. Depending on what DAW you're using, there may be some help in there for you.

Mark

WBRS · Post by **WBRS** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:19 am

Thank you for the very good information Mark. I don't have my receptor yet I am trying to avoid stepping on a mine so to speak. Thanks again for helping me on my way. Geoff

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