KVR Audio

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:58 am

Long story short, a myriad of frustrations led to some serious workflow tweaking, replacing various studio bits, etc. Then I was left with some issues with my host and what to do about them.

After looking at dozens of videos of Cubase online, reading some of the manual, and sending multiple PM's and emails to those I know who use it or chose NOT to use it, I've come to the conclusion that Cubase, IMO, gets it right in many areas. It's definitely not perfect, but no host is.

Now, outside of trying Cubase 5 at NAMM and getting a chance to try Cubase(earlier version) on somebody else's machine(in a limited amount), I haven't went through Cubase with a fine tuned comb. Yet. Here are just a few things that impress me, though not a definitive list by far.

1. The interface. To me, Cubase just seems to "get it". While it seems that many hosts just add features on without thinking them through and how they will fit into the workflow, Cubase manages to be one of the most complete hosts on the market, yet the interface, IMO, is about as clean as they come.

2. MIDI Editing- it's no secret that Cubase's MIDI editing is superb. Very flexible, lots of options, and from what I've tried, it FEELS right when editing. Add some excellent MIDI plugins and it's even better. Plus, the inline editing seems to be favored to other implementations I've seen.

3. Audio editing- Cubase includes a REAL audio editor right inside. Plenty of features and with the latest version, the most integrated tuning system that I've seen. I do use Melodyne, but for quick fixes(and maybe more), it's all right there.

4. Macros- I have wanted this in my previous host for a while.

5. VST Expression!!!!! The way that keyswitch/CC/etc. information is handled with the integration of the piano roll, main window, and notation is superb. This feature is a huge one for me, and I'm hoping it's everything I'm hoping it is.

6. Play Order Track(I think that's the name). Looking at how this works, it seems that it's a very cool way of working, especially live. Or you can throw an extra repeat into a song at the last minute, or move sections to somewhere else in the song. Very cool.

There is much more that I've seen that impresses me. But these are the biggest things to me.

It's not perfect, and I'll have to get used to some things. But that's the case with any host.

So am I crazy? I've avoided Cubase for a while and decided against taking the plunge many times. But the more I look at it, the more that draws me in.

Maybe it's a bad decision to make, maybe not. But if I'm back to getting more work done with it, then why not?

Anyways, no real reason to mention all of this. Feel free to share your thoughts. Why did YOU choose Cubase? Anything you found as a good workaround to something that annoys you in Cubase?

Brent

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:05 am

crazy?

bad memory?
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=247458

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:15 am

Cubase 5.01 here as of Friday night. So far so good.

Devon

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:17 am

Bad memory? Sorry, I don't follow? I know there is a joke in there somewhere, but I've been under the weather today and I'm missing it! Though Hink, I will say that thread you pointed to is a big reason why I started looking into it again.

It seems to me that a lot of people I've talked to have jumped to Cubase. Sure, people jump away from it. But it's still attracting new users all over the place. And while I don't need anyone's approval, it's nice to hear other people's reasons for liking Cubase, while sharing what I think looks cool. Just curious really.

Brent

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:26 am

Hey Brent. Longtime Cubase user since the early VST days so my impressions...

User Interface: It's a lot deeper and a lot more configurable than many casual users seem to know. Either you get it or you don't... either it fits you or it doesn't. I rarely find people who don't like it that even know about all of the UI configuration options... when I ask that is.

Midi Editing: I don't have tons of experience with midi in Sonar, Logic and similar so I can't directly compare them to Cubase. To do so would be to join the legions of disingenuous persons who claim to be experts on them all. I'm not. But I can say there has never been anything I needed to do that couldn't be done with Cubase midi and I've been a midi power user from way back before these apps ever did audio tracks.

Audio Editing: I haven't used an editor since Wavelab 3 and that was quite a few years ago. The only reason I ever have to leave Cubase is to burn CD's. It has it's shortcomings but it's efficient to me. The new pitching editor is amazing and works great in mix sessions.

Macros: I don't use a lot of macros but they are pretty powerful and the available functions are very well organized.

Play Order: Almost every mix session and many production sessions. It's one of the most useful things in the entire application and they improved it in versions 4 and beyond. Great tool.

Lastly, there are random complaints about backward compatibility which puzzle me since you can open C5 projects in C4 (with plugs and eq intact) and in SX3 (without those things but all tracks in place) using XML track archives (and now in *.steinberg-project format) and all of those versions import/export OMF.

There are many good daw applications to choose from out there, some old and some new. Cubase is as good as any in my view and (subjectively) better than some. It's not missing much at all.

Is it the only good choice? Of course not. But it's a strong choice for sure.

bullshark · Post by **bullshark** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:28 am

koolkeys, you bought it, or a just thinking about it? If so, why?

To me, the idea of learning yet another piece of software gives me headaches; I'd have to have pretty strong motivation to do so, not a big fan of software, or computers as a whole, to begin with. One of those motivation would be to replace the three piece of music related software I'm currently using by a single one. I'm using Reaper, Live Lite and Guitar Pro; not crazy about all the back and forthing, so I have researched a bit to see if Cubase 5 would do. It wouldn't, so I ain't moving.

So, what can motivate somebody enough to go through all the hassle of getting a new host?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:29 am

koolkeys wrote:Bad memory? Sorry, I don't follow? I know there is a joke in there somewhere, but I've been under the weather today and I'm missing it! Though Hink, I will say that thread you pointed to is a big reason why I started looking into it again.

It seems to me that a lot of people I've talked to have jumped to Cubase. Sure, people jump away from it. But it's still attracting new users all over the place. And while I don't need anyone's approval, it's nice to hear other people's reasons for liking Cubase, while sharing what I think looks cool. Just curious really.

Brent

the name of that thread is why hq switched, you asked people why they switched

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:42 am

Hink wrote:
koolkeys wrote:Bad memory? Sorry, I don't follow? I know there is a joke in there somewhere, but I've been under the weather today and I'm missing it! Though Hink, I will say that thread you pointed to is a big reason why I started looking into it again.

It seems to me that a lot of people I've talked to have jumped to Cubase. Sure, people jump away from it. But it's still attracting new users all over the place. And while I don't need anyone's approval, it's nice to hear other people's reasons for liking Cubase, while sharing what I think looks cool. Just curious really.

Brent
the name of that thread is why hq switched, you asked people why they switched

Oh

Sorry. I told you my humor-sense is a bit lacking tonight!

I'll answer the other posts shortly. Gotta get some work done real quick.

Brent

tomg · Post by **tomg** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:51 am

We all have our special needs and if you need Cubase, you need Cubase but I doubt you really need Cubase as much as you want Cubase.

That's good too just realize that it's not going to make your music any better. The plugs are good but not that good and there is always the dongle to consider.

It's going to cause a few headaches and support problems and you'll get on the SX upgrade go-round where they never fix old problems when they can release a paid upgrade. My 2c.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:02 am

tomg wrote:That's good too just realize that it's not going to make your music any better.

Not specific to Cubase or any particular daw but I think this is a common misperception. I actually think the right host - one that makes you very comfortable and doesn't block the creative process - actually can make the music better (for solo artists recording themselves) by reducing frustration and enhancing creativity.

I mean if it takes you 15 minutes to edit something that can be done elsewhere in 2 minutes... that certainly will help keep the creative juices flowing in that specific latter case.

It could be Reaper, Live, Logic or any daw that allows a solo artist to be more creative than perhaps another that may not fit how they think as well. If you've ever lost a melody that was in your head while fighting with technology you know what I mean.

Since the thread kinda went off topic I thought I'd add that purely personal opinion.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:06 am

It keep telling myself to stop having gear envy and to get down to business......er, well, we know how that has gone

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:08 am

LawrenceF wrote: I actually think the right host - one that makes you very comfortable and doesn't block the creative process

Can you tell me which one does that???

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:10 am

hibidy wrote:
LawrenceF wrote: I actually think the right host - one that makes you very comfortable and doesn't block the creative process
Can you tell me which one does that???

CuPerfSonaLogiReaSamTools.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon May 04, 2009 4:39 am

Before I respond to specifics, I think I should clarify some things.

First, I failed to mention a large part of my experience with Cubase. In school, I used Cubaes SX3 a TON. So I'm actually very used to the way it works and I'm pretty familiar. The experience I listed in my first post was based on version 4 and 5.

Also, of course I don't think that Cubase will make my music sound better. Absolutely in no way did I ever think or imply that. I'm perfectly aware that the host doesn't make better music, so hopefully people realize that is not an issue here.

Ok, to address various posts, keeping in mind that I won't reply to everything in every post.

LawrenceF wrote: User Interface: It's a lot deeper and a lot more configurable than many casual users seem to know. Either you get it or you don't... either it fits you or it doesn't. I rarely find people who don't like it that even know about all of the UI configuration options... when I ask that is.

This was important to me. I'm used to Sonar and how you can tweak the interface quite a bit. Cubase seems to take it even further with letting you do it on a per-track basis if you want. Very cool.

Midi Editing: I don't have tons of experience with midi in Sonar, Logic and similar so I can't directly compare them to Cubase. To do so would be to join the legions of disingenuous persons who claim to be experts on them all. I'm not. But I can say there has never been anything I needed to do that couldn't be done with Cubase midi and I've been a midi power user from way back before these apps ever did audio tracks.

The difference that I know if is that Cubase is more tool based than Sonar. Sonar does have great MIDI these days, but it just works differently. I think Cubase is more refined in a couple of areas though.

Play Order: Almost every mix session and many production sessions. It's one of the most useful things in the entire application and they improved it in versions 4 and beyond. Great tool.

I'm looking forward to this one for sure. Being able to rearrange and change the order of things played and having multiple arrangements available for a single song to switch between on the fly is a GREAT feature.

Lastly, there are random complaints about backward compatibility which puzzle me since you can open C5 projects in C4 (with plugs and eq intact) and in SX3 (without those things but all tracks in place) using XML track archives (and now in *.steinberg-project format) and all of those versions import/export OMF.

I don't have previous versions, so it won't affect me.

More in a second........

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Mon May 04, 2009 4:40 am

LawrenceF wrote:
hibidy wrote:
LawrenceF wrote: I actually think the right host - one that makes you very comfortable and doesn't block the creative process
Can you tell me which one does that???
CuPerfSonaLogiReaSamTools.

Samplitude is the only one I haven't tried.......too expensive after I've already owned all you mentioned

Impressed with Cubase- am I crazy? What impresses you?