One thing that I severly miss in all sequencers is a way to arrange sections
of a song in a tidy manor. Working in the pop song genre, alterations of
vers, bridge, refrain is the standard form. As a song develops I usually
create several version of the vers, bridge and refrain etc. It can be like
10 difference versions of each. So when I have a pool of song sections I
shuffle them around to see how to fit them together.
Muzys have songs & project and then the playroom which is very useful for
that but it's far from a neat solution as you can't lay out your "project"
structure, only play it live and then record your jam session into a new song.
So what I like to see in MU.TOOL is:
1. a "regions/patter/song section" pool where all song sections are stored.
There I can store unused song sections out of sight from the arrange window.
2. a "regions/patter/song section" arranger window. Preferably as list of rows like:
- 1 vers A 8 bars
- 2 vers B 8 bars
- 3 bridge A 4 bars
- 4 bridge C 2 bars
- 5 refrain A 16 bars
- 6 vers C 8 bars
- 7 vers D 8 bars
etc
3. play selected song section in loop mode (like the play room)
4. Able to save alternate versions of the complete song in the session.
5. Able to tagg the song sections like "vers" and "bridge" and the have
different versions named like A, B etc making it easy to change which version
is used without changing the overall structure.
Muzys, Cubase, Ableton, Logic and Renoise have some of this capabilities but
non nailed it. It's too much "play sections live"-approach too little for the
desktop arranger/composer.
What I mean by "song section" is just how "song" used to work in Muzys - a
section of a song defining all parts for all tracks.
Song section arranger
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- KVRist
- 358 posts since 2 Dec, 2002
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- KVRAF
- 2938 posts since 18 Jul, 2005
Sort of like it is for audio and MIDI parts at the moment, but for entire song sections? Sounds good. Currently, I'm doing this by copying sections of the song to distant areas of the timeline.ZooTooK wrote:1. a "regions/patter/song section" pool where all song sections are stored. ... There I can store unused song sections out of sight from the arrange window.
Sounds pretty cool, I must admit. I kind of envision it as the same as the current sequencing space, but with one track and parts representing whole song sections instead of individual sequences. You would then be able to split / re-order etc, just like you can with the ordinary parts. Kind of a heirarchical container-like concept.ZooTooK wrote:2. a "regions/patter/song section" arranger window. Preferably as list of rows like:
I imagine it'd be a lot of work code-wise though.
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- KVRAF
- 7411 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
Being able to trigger Parts from MIDI input in real time would be nice, too.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 358 posts since 2 Dec, 2002
Me too and it becomes extreemly cluttered, and a lot of scrolling and zooming in/out.... it makes me gorobenestobenz wrote:Currently, I'm doing this by copying sections of the song to distant areas of the timeline.
and unfocused...-
- KVRAF
- 7411 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
Can you use multiple compositions within the one MuSession for this? Might be easier than zooming?
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- KVRAF
- 13854 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
I've read your messages and taken notes about it on the whishlist.
I agree with pljones that the solution is in using other 'little' compositions, i.e. using small compositions that are just song sections.
Then i would like to add a function that allows inserting a composition into another composition at time x.
That would already come very close to your request, right?
I agree with pljones that the solution is in using other 'little' compositions, i.e. using small compositions that are just song sections.
Then i would like to add a function that allows inserting a composition into another composition at time x.
That would already come very close to your request, right?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 358 posts since 2 Dec, 2002
Oh, my, I wasn't aware of the "composition" feature. Looks absolutly right. I guess it's similar to "Song" in Muzys.... perfect!
Yes, so what I like to see is a way to create one or several play lists for the "compositions" AND an overview window for all compositions (used and non-used), preferably with ways to sort them by name and tagg.
Drag n drop compositions from a pool window into a play list would be one way of doing it.
Triggering compositions "live" by midi or mouse is also nice alternative to make play lists, just like the Play Room in Muzys is.
But what I argue for here is a way to make that composition play list(s) created by hand (mouse) and then editable. That's what I'm missing in Muzys and all other sequencers.... The Tracker play list (Renoise etc) is close but you can only have one list and you can't "hide" un-used patterns.
And nesting Compositions into Compositions would also be nice, but could be complex unless you have a very good GUI...
Yes, so what I like to see is a way to create one or several play lists for the "compositions" AND an overview window for all compositions (used and non-used), preferably with ways to sort them by name and tagg.
Drag n drop compositions from a pool window into a play list would be one way of doing it.
Triggering compositions "live" by midi or mouse is also nice alternative to make play lists, just like the Play Room in Muzys is.
But what I argue for here is a way to make that composition play list(s) created by hand (mouse) and then editable. That's what I'm missing in Muzys and all other sequencers.... The Tracker play list (Renoise etc) is close but you can only have one list and you can't "hide" un-used patterns.
And nesting Compositions into Compositions would also be nice, but could be complex unless you have a very good GUI...
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- KVRAF
- 13854 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Sounds like you have experience in this.ZooTooK wrote:And nesting Compositions into Compositions would also be nice, but could be complex unless you have a very good GUI...
For my curiosity: What are the possible problems you foresee regarding nested compositions?
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- KVRist
- 47 posts since 1 May, 2006 from Stockholm, Sweden
ZooTooK wrote: Yes, so what I like to see is a way to create one or several play lists for the "compositions" AND an overview window for all compositions (used and non-used), preferably with ways to sort them by name and tagg.
Drag n drop compositions from a pool window into a play list would be one way of doing it.
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And nesting Compositions into Compositions would also be nice, but could be complex unless you have a very good GUI...
Maybe in a separate window, like the modular area?
And it would be very nice if it could include wav files as well (already happy that you included my wish for drag-n-drop
) as I work with loops I made earlier (or bounced) mixed with newly composed MIDI. * * * *
About composing and arranging mentioned earlier (verse1, chorus, bridge etc.) have a look at Acid (or the free Acid express, allowing you to work with 10 tracks).
If that extremely easy way to work one day would be included in Mulab I could easily pay five times the prize for it!
