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[zerocrossing]

Like Graeme said, you really really have still a long way to go.

I don't want to hijack this thread into a political argument, but the USA has been isolated from the real world for a long time. Artificially low gas prices is just one example, diesel costs me a smidgen under $7 a gallon here.

Artificially raising gas prices and using the money for social engineering is a European idea that we are sadly adopting. You are right if we don't change we'll be where you are in no time.

Why are you people still using gasoline?

http://gas2.org/2008/05/05/the-cleanest ... cles-ngvs/

[tomg]

20% unemployment? Even the idiot countries like my own that followed the land of the cheap down the road to voodoonomic meltdown can't manage half of that.

Spain managed it. Actually Europe in general is doing better than we are right now but it's slipping everywhere.

[eduardo_b]

Like Graeme said, you really really have still a long way to go.

I don't want to hijack this thread into a political argument, but the USA has been isolated from the real world for a long time. Artificially low gas prices is just one example, diesel costs me a smidgen under $7 a gallon here.

Artificially raising gas prices and using the money for social engineering is a European idea that we are sadly adopting. You are right if we don't change we'll be where you are in no time.

Why are you people still using gasoline?

http://gas2.org/2008/05/05/the-cleanest ... cles-ngvs/

Because, thanks to American car companies, most Americans don't know how good diesel cars are. Great mileage, wonderful torque even with small motors and low emissions. Plus, oddly enough, diesel is actually more expensive than gasoline here.

[eduardo_b]

20% unemployment? Even the idiot countries like my own that followed the land of the cheap down the road to voodoonomic meltdown can't manage half of that.

Spain managed it. Actually Europe in general is doing better than we are right now but it's slipping everywhere.

I was under the impression that the immigrant working population in España was part of the reason for the higher than typical unemployment rate. Not completely sure about this though, because Germany and France are experiencing a reduction in immigrant populations as they return to their native countries to the east as a result of the loss of jobs.

[tomg]

Because, thanks to American car companies, most Americans don't know how good diesel cars are. Great mileage, wonderful torque even with small motors and low emissions. Plus, oddly enough, diesel is actually more expensive than gasoline here.

I know the guy next door gets up a 5:30am to crank up his truck that clangs, pings, and clutters louder that the gas powered school buses running up and down the street for 30 minutes while he warms it up enough to drive. I can hear that thing in the living room over the TV.

[eduardo_b]

Because, thanks to American car companies, most Americans don't know how good diesel cars are. Great mileage, wonderful torque even with small motors and low emissions. Plus, oddly enough, diesel is actually more expensive than gasoline here.

I know the guy next door gets up a 5:30am to crank up his truck that clangs, pings, and clutters louder that the gas powered school buses running up and down the street for 30 minutes while he warms it up enough to drive. I can hear that thing in the living room over the TV.

Just got back from a few weeks in Italia, and the diesels there are very quiet. In fact, you don't see any cars, even premium German models, with gasoline engines, and the diesel displacements are far smaller than the gas engines in the same models here. Drove a Renault for some 2000 kilometers and it was very pleasant. Third gear covered an amazing range of kph.

[nuffink]

Because, thanks to American car companies, most Americans don't know how good diesel cars are. Great mileage, wonderful torque even with small motors and low emissions. Plus, oddly enough, diesel is actually more expensive than gasoline here.

I know the guy next door gets up a 5:30am to crank up his truck that clangs, pings, and clutters louder that the gas powered school buses running up and down the street for 30 minutes while he warms it up enough to drive. I can hear that thing in the living room over the TV.

Yeah but that's an American auto and they're somewhere behind Bangladeshi and Albanian in their sophistication. Which is why they're unsellable anywhere in the world (including America now).

[Graeme]

Why are you people still using gasoline?

We all have our reasons .

LPG is not available in Spain, except for a limited number of commercial vehicles. Up until a couple of years ago, there were only 4 or 5 places where you could buy it in the whole country (it's a pretty big country) and I don't think that's changed much, if at all. The lack of LPG caought quite a few ex-pats out and they had to have their cars re-converted (or leave them behind and buy new ones).

Diesel seems to be the fuel of choice here. My local gas station has as many diesel pumps as petrol - so I guess there are more diesel vehicles around. I would think the majority of new cars sold here are diesel, certainly both mine are and I think all my neighbours also run diesel vehicles, even though it's now more expensive than petrol.

eduardo_b seems to grasp the basic economic principles a lot better than most USA citizens do. Artificially low gas prices are not the road to long-term economic stability.

[jplanet]

Like Graeme said, you really really have still a long way to go.

I don't want to hijack this thread into a political argument, but the USA has been isolated from the real world for a long time. Artificially low gas prices is just one example, diesel costs me a smidgen under $7 a gallon here.

Artificially raising gas prices and using the money for social engineering is a European idea that we are sadly adopting. You are right if we don't change we'll be where you are in no time.

It's not social engineering, it's creating economic stability and thus markets that are rational and predictable. Funny how both oil and car companies would prefer a stable $4 a gallon rather than fluctuating pricing that makes revenues unpredictable and planning all but impossible. Gas/diesel has been far too low in North America, encouraging over-consumption and contributing to both poor resource management and increasing climate issues. Regulated fuel prices is the inevitable consequence of decreasing supplies of inexpensive oil and significant worldwide social-environmental issues that cannot be ignored. Americans are, as typically is the case, their own worst enemy. Social engineering is the most trivial issue facing the country in the future.

I agree with all you've said, except or the remark in bold...that's just such a typical, condescending and judgmental statement to make. As an American I am insulted.

Keep in mind, we voted for change...some of us will whine about it, but the majority of us do want the changes we are making going forward...

[eduardo_b]

Like Graeme said, you really really have still a long way to go.

I don't want to hijack this thread into a political argument, but the USA has been isolated from the real world for a long time. Artificially low gas prices is just one example, diesel costs me a smidgen under $7 a gallon here.

Artificially raising gas prices and using the money for social engineering is a European idea that we are sadly adopting. You are right if we don't change we'll be where you are in no time.

It's not social engineering, it's creating economic stability and thus markets that are rational and predictable. Funny how both oil and car companies would prefer a stable $4 a gallon rather than fluctuating pricing that makes revenues unpredictable and planning all but impossible. Gas/diesel has been far too low in North America, encouraging over-consumption and contributing to both poor resource management and increasing climate issues. Regulated fuel prices is the inevitable consequence of decreasing supplies of inexpensive oil and significant worldwide social-environmental issues that cannot be ignored. Americans are, as typically is the case, their own worst enemy. Social engineering is the most trivial issue facing the country in the future.

I agree with all you've said, except or the remark in bold...that's just such a typical, condescending and judgmental statement to make. As an American I am insulted.

Keep in mind, we voted for change...some of us will whine about it, but the majority of us do want the changes we are making going forward...

I don't know about that. Surveys indicate that more than 50 percent of our fellow citizens think global warming is a crock, so I'm not at all sure the majority want changes that matter in the long term. And a lot of Americans have no concept of how advanced other countries are relative to us. That's my point about being their own worst enemy. It's a global economy now, and the US is no longer the only major economic power. We share the world's resources that are limited in varying degrees. Having 3 percent of the world's population while using 25 percent of its resources isn't going to play out well in the future...the near future for that matter.

[glokraw]

It is slimy 'green' government regulators who refuse to permit Ford, VW, and other companies, to sell their wildly fuel-efficient diesel cars in America. A gal at work has a VW that has never gotten less than 50 mpg! It's now illegal to sell new ones here

[tomg]

We consider our economy sable if employment is stable. It's only recently that we've had euro type problems.

[nuffink]

2004 - 2005. Finger on the pulse there Tom.

[nuffink]

Her you go...

The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate in the European Union (EU27) in March 2009 was 8.3% compared to 6.7% in March 2008. The Eurozone (EA16) unemployment figure for January 2009 was 8.2% compared to 7.3% in January 2008.[4] The unemployment rate (EU25) had previously declined in prior years from 8.9% in March 2005 to 8.4% in March 2006 to 7.3% in March 2007.[5] The rate varies widely by member state. There has been a steep upturn in the unemployment rate in recent months due to the worldwide credit crunch and following recession. The countries within the EU which were most affected were Spain, Ireland and the Baltic countries with the unemployment rate doubling or in case of the Baltic countries nearly tripling. By comparison in March 2009 the United States had an unemployment rate of 8.6% (2008: 5.1; 2007: 4.4; 2006: 4.7) which was higher than the EU-27's unemployment rate but lower than the EU-16 Eurozone rate of 8.9%.

Courtesy of wiki

[glokraw]

If the global warming fraud is successful, massive tax-rape on the poor and middle class
will take place in the form of criminally high heating/cooling/transportation bills to pay for exorcising the imaginary carbon demons. True global global warming and cooling are cyclical, based on the output of the sun, and there is no thermostat connected to the sun Props to algore, for being one of the truly great con-artists in human history