u-he

billcar2004 · Post by **billcar2004** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:26 pm

Hi URS
On the inuitial patch when I open zebra the info says its has 2 osc, noise, VCF
then it says it has PWM OSC 2
I am only new to zebra and am trying to figure it out. The layout is a bit different than i am used to. I am trying to figure out how pwm is set on osc 2. I cant find it. Great sounding synth by the way. Just hope I can tame it.
Liam

mkastrup · Post by **mkastrup** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:46 pm

I can help here,

On OSC you see 4 MENU's : Default, Mix, FX, Phase

Select Phase, next to the label "Inv" is a setting for Off or On

Put it to ON

Move the Phase circle up to 12 clock position

Right click the modulator slot right of it and select LFO 1

Turn up the value to around 20 in that modulator slot.

There you go.... PWM

/Michael

Polybius · Post by **Polybius** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:38 pm

I think it's also covered in one of the video tutorials. But since i don't know which, i'm going to recommend giving all of them a peek, IMO these are mandatory if you want to get a hang of this synth quick:

http://www.u-he.com/zebra/index.php?item=tutorials

Mans · Post by **Mans** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:46 am

mkastrup wrote:I can help here,

On OSC you see 4 MENU's : Default, Mix, FX, Phase

Select Phase, next to the label "Inv" is a setting for Off or On

Put it to ON

Move the Phase circle up to 12 clock position

Right click the modulator slot right of it and select LFO 1

Turn up the value to around 20 in that modulator slot.

There you go.... PWM

/Michael

Forgive me but modulating the phase is not pulse width modulation is it? I thought in zebra for PWM you select a pulse wave bank and modulate the wave knob. Or am I missing an update as I see in the teaser image the phase knob is called Phase/PWM?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:01 am

Mans,

When "inv" is turned on you suddenly have 2 sawtooth waveforms, the second one is upside down. The phase knob pushes these two sawtooths in opposite directions - it actually becomes a "phase difference" knob. Now, a sawtooth and an upside down sawtooth mixed together result in... a pulse wave! The phase difference between the two determines the pulse width. This is one of the tricks to do pwm in Zebra, and probably the most common and most versatile one (you're not restricted to sawtooths... try any wave...)

- use PWM as a wavetable in GeoMorph mode (as you said)
- create a square wave and use the "Symmetry" OscFX
- there was another one which now slipped my memory...

Mans · Post by **Mans** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:48 am

Urs wrote:Mans,

When "inv" is turned on you suddenly have 2 sawtooth waveforms, the second one is upside down. The phase knob pushes these two sawtooths in opposite directions - it actually becomes a "phase difference" knob. Now, a sawtooth and an upside down sawtooth mixed together result in... a pulse wave! The phase difference between the two determines the pulse width. This is one of the tricks to do pwm in Zebra, and probably the most common and most versatile one (you're not restricted to sawtooths... try any wave...)

- use PWM as a wavetable in GeoMorph mode (as you said)
- create a square wave and use the "Symmetry" OscFX
- there was another one which now slipped my memory...

Aha that's great! Still surprises lurking after months of use

billcar2004 · Post by **billcar2004** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:59 pm

So urs
I have jupiter8v, in osc 1&2 there is a variable pulse. What is the best way to achieve this. Is it by using the option of a saw wave and inverting it or using a square wave or do I use a square wave and use the invert option. I will try both to see which works.
Liam

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:33 pm

billcar2004 wrote:So urs
I have jupiter8v, in osc 1&2 there is a variable pulse. What is the best way to achieve this. Is it by using the option of a saw wave and inverting it or using a square wave or do I use a square wave and use the invert option. I will try both to see which works.
Liam

I'd use the inverted sawtooth with the phase modulation (the init patch has this set up for oscillator 2... have a look at it). It's fast, it sounds good and it's way more flexible than any "fixed pwm" approach.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:49 pm

It's easy to overlook but zircon here made a few PWM 101 presets for Z2 using both pwm as well as scanning the wavetable. They're on the PatchLib site: http://u-he.com/PatchLib/presets/z2/zircon-pwm-101.zip.

billcar2004 · Post by **billcar2004** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:51 pm

Checked out zircons patches. These were what I was looking for. And both methods sound the same. Actually bought his comercial (Dance & Electronic Trilogy) set last week. Great work.
I am trying to copy a preset from jupiter 8v. I cant get it to Even close. Just the square wave on its own and by selecting a different phase position in moreosc1 ( Ithink thats what it's called) it sounds similar to jupiter 8v with similar settings but once I modulate it with an lfo as in "Zircon PWM analogish" It starts sounding different. Any chance could someone give me a hand, If you have time. It would help my learning as to what I am doing wrong.
Below is links to a jpeg of the JP8V settings and a mp3 of the sound.

http://www.zshare.net/image/63026013260827bc/]Jupiter patch.JPG
http://www.zshare.net/audio/63026676ab21b456/]JP8V sound mp3.mp3

Any help on this would be great.
Liam

mkastrup · Post by **mkastrup** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:12 pm

Give this a listen:

http://www.synthtronic.com/demos/Jup8V_Z2_PWM.mp3

First you hear Jupiter 8V then Zebra2

http://www.synthtronic.com/demos/Jup8V_PWM.zip

/Michael

EDIT: something weird happening with the tuning but nevermind that.

billcar2004 · Post by **billcar2004** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:49 pm

Thanks michael.
The JP8v preset doesn't sound the same. I have attached my sound as a J8E file. Thanks for the help. Maybe there something funny going on my end. Its punch to the start of the sound the release of the sound aswell, i cant get sounding the same. Maybe I wont, 2 different synths. http://www.zshare.net/download/6303107131793fde/]my sound.j8e
Its the closest i could get to the main synth in Depeche Modes - just cant get enough. So they are short notes rather than sustained ones.
Liam

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:25 am

Doesn't anyone here load "Factory" oscillator presets?

mkastrup · Post by **mkastrup** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:58 am

billcar2004 wrote:Thanks michael.
The JP8v preset doesn't sound the same. I have attached my sound as a J8E file. Thanks for the help. Maybe there something funny going on my end. Its punch to the start of the sound the release of the sound aswell, i cant get sounding the same. Maybe I wont, 2 different synths. http://www.zshare.net/download/6303107131793fde/]my sound.j8e
Its the closest i could get to the main synth in Depeche Modes - just cant get enough. So they are short notes rather than sustained ones.
Liam

Hi Liam

Sorry but i cant load the preset because its only a demo version of Jupiter V i've got. Just wanted to show that there should be no hidden magic in Jupiter 8V when it comes to making PWM.

/Michael

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:40 am

mkastrup wrote:hidden magic

One thing to know, which might add subtle difference is that Zebra's PWM is tuning stable. That is, the pulse width expands and contacts in two directions. This might be different in a naive analogue oscillator where the pulse width is determined by a DC-offset mixed to a sawtooth before feeding that into a comparator. In that case PWM introduces three things: a varying DC-offset that is usally compensated for by a highpass filter, a loss in dB on the extreme edges (I think even -6dB when pw reaches 0/100%) and a tiny bit of vibrato that depends on PWM depth and speed. All these things are IMHO undesirable, but easily modelled with Zebra's oscillators. You can get a feeling for the vibrato when turning off the inv switch and hear what happens when modulating phase in just one direction at a time...