MuTools

TheGuysanIdiot · Post by **TheGuysanIdiot** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:39 pm

Jo,

I cannot remember if I have asked you this before.

If I am working on a new session and then I do: File > Save Session. I then do: File > Quit.

MU.LAB always shows me the "Are you sure to quit?" with 3 options. Why does MU.LAB not just exit as the file has already been saved.

What do other forum members think about the "Are you sure to quit?" method.

Will M3 work the same as M2 in this respect?

OZ

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:35 pm

It's OK to ask but the Saving options are useless if the file has been saved already.

Beside this one,
when we work on multiple takes, especially when things are coming faster than you can think, there is always a confirmatory message before you can hit Recording again.

Since I have no saying in what the Engine does, the message is useless, unless it is used to cover the time MuLab takes to get ready for the next action.....that would be sneaky

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:31 pm

To be honest, I think the whole saving process needs to be examined for flow - it seems to be that extra bit slower than in most other apps, one of the biggest reasons being the slightly cumbersome filenaming dialogue without text-style selection functionality. It doesn't really invite you to churn out a series of song versions in a 'song_001, song_002, song_003, ...' style (which is my school of do).

Marco

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:03 pm

I gave up on this one back in LUNA. File operations are those where I'd most like to see the native widgets used because that's the point I'm interacting closely with the "outside world". And there is a "normal workflow" associated with an editor - when you hit exit, it says "do you want to save" if there are unsaved changes; it only prompts for a new name if there's no current file. Else you do "Save As" to create a new file and start work on it.

"Are you sure you want to exit?" might be appropriate if it was going to take a long time to get out of the app and restart it. But MU.LAB isn't like that. It's fast. If I exited accidentally, I can run it again - probably nearly as fast as I can say "no" to the "are you sure" pop up!

(Recently use sessions would be handy...)

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:17 am

TheGuysanIdiot wrote:Jo,

I cannot remember if I have asked you this before.

If I am working on a new session and then I do: File > Save Session. I then do: File > Quit.

MU.LAB always shows me the "Are you sure to quit?" with 3 options. Why does MU.LAB not just exit as the file has already been saved.

What do other forum members think about the "Are you sure to quit?" method.

Will M3 work the same as M2 in this respect?

OZ

Yes, no change (yet) on this.

There are so many aspects that define whether a session has changed or not that it is very complex to track that.

In fact, even just tweaking a controller on your MIDI keyboard 'changes' a session.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:18 am

liquidsound wrote:It's OK to ask but the Saving options are useless if the file has been saved already.

Beside this one,
when we work on multiple takes, especially when things are coming faster than you can think, there is always a confirmatory message before you can hit Recording again.

Since I have no saying in what the Engine does, the message is useless, unless it is used to cover the time MuLab takes to get ready for the next action.....that would be sneaky

Euh, could you please post a screenshot; Not sure which 'confirmation message' you mean.

Thanks.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:20 am

Bonteburg wrote:To be honest, I think the whole saving process needs to be examined for flow - it seems to be that extra bit slower than in most other apps, one of the biggest reasons being the slightly cumbersome filenaming dialogue without text-style selection functionality. It doesn't really invite you to churn out a series of song versions in a 'song_001, song_002, song_003, ...' style (which is my school of do).

Marco

Note that when you click a file in the file list, that name will be used as default in the 'New File Name' dialog. So then it's easy to just change the version number of your file.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:06 am

pljones wrote:I gave up on this one back in LUNA. File operations are those where I'd most like to see the native widgets used because that's the point I'm interacting closely with the "outside world".

Well in fact it was the intention to use 'native' file selection dialogs.

But i encountered too many difficulties in customizing them (especially on OSX) that i had practically no choice of creating a MUTOOLS GUI version of them.

I'm open to improve the file selection dialog where appropriate.

And there is a "normal workflow" associated with an editor - when you hit exit, it says "do you want to save" if there are unsaved changes; it only prompts for a new name if there's no current file. Else you do "Save As" to create a new file and start work on it.

"Are you sure you want to exit?" might be appropriate if it was going to take a long time to get out of the app and restart it. But MU.LAB isn't like that. It's fast. If I exited accidentally, I can run it again - probably nearly as fast as I can say "no" to the "are you sure" pop up!

Yes i agree.

But i find it practically quite complex to track every possible change to a session. There are so many aspects!

Recently use sessions would be handy...

It's on the whishlist for a longer time already.
So i've pushed it's priority and will implement it in M3.

TheGuysanIdiot · Post by **TheGuysanIdiot** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:59 am

Jo,

"There are so many aspects that define whether a session has changed or not that it is very complex to track that."

I thought you had a good reason for having MU.LAB quit the way it does and that is fine with me. The way it currently quits is very safe. So I will live with it and call it a feature.

OZ

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:10 pm

Another example of "overdoing it" - if you change which cell has focus or the zoom level in MSExcel, it asks if you want to save. I'm thinking "I haven't changed the data!". Essentially, any UI action causes the "dirty" flag to be set, so what would be a "hard" problem is made "easy" -- but you're still left with an annoyed user!

But at least I can do "File->Save" followed immediately "File->Exit" and not be prompted if I want to save. But I guess changing MU.LAB to be like Excel would have sufficiently little benefit in user workflow to mean it's not worthwhile.

And I know, from the programs I write, that tracking changes down to the most granular level needs to be designed in from day one or it's incredibly painful to add, so I guess the benefit vs developer effort on this feature probably puts it below the "good idea" level

.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:04 pm

mutools wrote: Euh, could you please post a screenshot; Not sure which 'confirmation message' you mean.

Thanks.

"! Event Recording Discarded".
I understand that is useful to make the user aware that he could have accidentally pushed Cancel. It takes around 2 to 3 seconds to get back into the groove. It feels like a hiccup

Nothing major Jo.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:29 am

Ah, that one.

Maybe it's indeed a bit superfluous.

Do others also feel it should be removed?

TheGuysanIdiot · Post by **TheGuysanIdiot** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:57 am

Jo,

My vote = remove it.

OZ

robenestobenz · Post by **robenestobenz** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:58 pm

mutools wrote:Ah, that one.

Maybe it's indeed a bit superfluous.

Do others also feel it should be removed?

Yeah, I'd like to see it gone too.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:20 pm

In the first M3 preview, that alert will be 'discarded'

(stupid joke sorry

)