KV331 Audio

rectus_dominus · Post by **rectus_dominus** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:31 am

Wait till the mighty Rectus gets his PhD and starts infusing analog modeling into Synthmaster or Komplexer...

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:19 pm

fmr wrote:I have been trying the new Betas, and I somehow find the sound of SynthMaster too "plastic" or "digital" (in the bad meaning).
Yesterday, I did an A/B comparison with version 1.5, and that one has a much warmer and full sound, as I actually remembered. What happened to the sound? Can we expect to have the same sound (at least) in the new version?

When you are comparing, you compared v2.0 with v1.0, right?

What settings/presets did you use?

Thanks!

Bulent

PS: We have better "analog" filter models this time, modeled after the "ladder" filters

rectus_dominus · Post by **rectus_dominus** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:28 pm

I'd like to request VCO sounding oscillators. You know, with stable lower octaves and stuff. If it's possible, of course. I don't want to request silly things. Can you tell me how far I can go with the requests?

Dunno, somehow Largo, and Synthmaster is initially uncapable for these kickass saw basses. They need EQ and fx, and drive and stuff. While others can make it by just playing low

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:30 pm

kv331 wrote:
fmr wrote:I have been trying the new Betas, and I somehow find the sound of SynthMaster too "plastic" or "digital" (in the bad meaning).
Yesterday, I did an A/B comparison with version 1.5, and that one has a much warmer and full sound, as I actually remembered. What happened to the sound? Can we expect to have the same sound (at least) in the new version?
When you are comparing, you compared v2.0 with v1.0, right?

What settings/presets did you use?

Thanks!

Bulent

PS: We have better "analog" filter models this time, modeled after the "ladder" filters

I compared "similar" patches, basically traditional subtractive ones, like polysynth patches, analog pads, strings, brass, etc. I kept it as simple as possible. and yes, I compared version 1.0.5 and version 2 of SynthMaster

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:23 pm

But you havent heard all the patches yet! Anyhow, we can revert back if necessary

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:25 pm

rectus_dominus wrote: Dunno, somehow Largo, and Synthmaster is initially uncapable for these kickass saw basses. They need EQ and fx, and drive and stuff. While others can make it by just playing low

I think I can fix that by changing the default wavetable size to 2048, will investigate that tomorrow.

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:43 pm

rectus_dominus wrote: Dunno, somehow Largo, and Synthmaster is initially uncapable for these kickass saw basses. They need EQ and fx, and drive and stuff. While others can make it by just playing low

Ok, I have 2 samples:

The first one is rendered with a wavetable of size 1024:
http://www.kv331audio.com/SynthMaster/S ... s/1024.wav

The second one is rendered with a wavetable of size 2048:
http://www.kv331audio.com/SynthMaster/S ... s/2048.wav

The second should should obviously sound "brighter". Should we stick to that one ? (I mean use wavetables of size 2048 internally?)

rectus_dominus · Post by **rectus_dominus** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:44 pm

Ah, found some place of improvement, after playing with Largo... LFO Delay,fade in/out
And keytrack settings in various places like oscillator,filter,lfo, etc... It can improve complex patches and gives more opportunity for percussion thingies
-Free running LFOs
-Different types of envelope triggering like ADSD1SD2R and stuff, if it can be implemented then I'll get some more info about it

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:49 pm

rectus_dominus wrote:Ah, found some place of improvement, after playing with Largo... LFO Delay,fade in/out
And keytrack settings in various places like oscillator,filter,lfo, etc... It can improve complex patches and gives more opportunity for percussion thingies
-Free running LFOs
-Different types of envelope triggering like ADSD1SD2R and stuff, if it can be implemented then I'll get some more info about it

Use global (synth) LFOs for free running LFOs.

For LFO delay, you can assign an envelope to an LFO's volume.

For different types of envelope triggering, dont know? Multistage envelopes can help you with that?

rectus_dominus · Post by **rectus_dominus** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:51 pm

LFO delay with an envelope is a little bit pain to me... It's not as hands-on and eventually I'll run out of envelopes
The fade is a necessary thing for me when creating rich wavetable pads (hmm, fiddling with msegs can work for me)

Multistage envelopes? Hmm honestly I didn't extensively used them but in this very minute I tried one. And yes, it can help me, thanks. Of course they aren't that hands-on; they are a bit unpredictable for me though. But there is an another limitation: MSEGs can't be properly automated in Synthmaster.

(Maybe bug: After raising the last point then reducing to 0 the sound still keeps running)

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:53 pm

I'll try yo squize in LFO delay next week, how about that?

Do we also need release? I mean an AR type envelope for LFOs?

rectus_dominus · Post by **rectus_dominus** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:09 pm

Delay and fade in (and fade out if it isn't hard to implement)
Delay makes the LFO come in later, while fade in makes it come "gradually"
Fade out of course makes the LFO go away after some time, but I don't think it's that important, just adds some usability. Only if you can manage it with no hard efforts. (I think that similar effect can be achieved with a 3parted MSEG.

And by the way I couldn't squeeze out a supersaw from Synthmaster. Even with toying around with velocty error and spread, as you told. And I couldn't figure it out myself

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:19 pm

rectus_dominus wrote: And by the way I couldn't squeeze out a supersaw from Synthmaster. Even with toying around with velocty error and spread, as you told. And I couldn't figure it out myself

Hey, isnt the following "super" enough to be a supersaw?

http://www.kv331audio.com/SynthMaster/S ... perSaw.mp3

Or am I missing something

rectus_dominus · Post by **rectus_dominus** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:56 pm

Just tell me how to make it and I'll construct fatter ones for my taste

Of course using standard subtractive mode with unison and others

EDIT: I dunno but is there any way to avoid the natural "phasing motion" when using many oscillators with detune and stuff? Does it have anything with aliasing? Cause that poses as a problem for me when making hyper- and superwaves in Largo, Komplexer, or Synthmaster. I just don't get the depth of the sound
Using Sylenth or Zebra doesn't give me troubles like that, of course they are different stuff

I'm still suggesting 'unison detune' and 'unison spread' knobs on the global settings part...
I dont have any progress with those velocity knobs though

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:30 pm

rectus_dominus wrote:Just tell me how to make it and I'll construct fatter ones for my taste

Here's a fat osc:

All oscillators are detuned, and their detune amounts are also modulated with MIDI Velocity at different amounts.

On the Layer tab, Velocity Error is turned on to add some random error to the MIDI Velocity so that each time you press a note the detune amounts are a bit different...

For the phasing problem you are mentioning: For that we turn on "Free" (Free Running). Since the osc is free running, the instantaneous phase for the oscillators start at random values when a new note is pressed. If "Free" is off, the phase counters are always reset to zero, and that causes the phasing sound at note onsets.

I should take a look at my "free" implementation. Maybe I am resetting the phase counter to zero even if "free" is pressed...

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