Berlin Modular (ancient thread)

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suthnear wrote:In fact, even chorus is tricky because in order to get the 20-40ms delay times conventionally used for chorus there is too much clock noise in the signal as the oscillator used to set the bbd's rate moves down into the audible frequency range.
Yep, this is definitely the case. I have an A-188 and I've invested in two other BBD chips specifically for this reason. I have an MN3206 (128 stage) for K-S physmo stuff, a BL3207 (1024 stage) for chorus and more lofi K-S stuff and a MN3205 (4096 stage) for discrete delays. The chips fit into a socket so they can be easily switched.

The thing about the doepfer BBD is it's quirky. It doesn't have an expansion/compression circuit to help the s/n ratio and there is no LPF after the delay to get rid of clock noise the way most typical BBD based stompboxes do. It does however give you full access to the feedback path and a CV out that follows the clock speed so that you can improvise such things. It will not track 1v/oct, even over a single octave so getting it track anything like a chromatic scale is an effort in futility (even using something like Silent Way or Volta to calibrate). When you get to low clock speeds (longer delay times), even if you have filtered out clock noise and such, the delays get very gritty.

All that being said, it's one of my favorite modules. Follow it with a low-pass gate and you can get some of the nicest plucked string sounds. I'd just say that if you are used to software combs like the ones in Zebra and the Tuned delays in MFM2, the doepfer BBD is a much different beast. The analogue systems rs290 is probably better for getting those kind of results.

I've been following Bazille with MFM2 in the signal chain a lot lately. Using pitched noise as an exciter. I've gotten excellent results that way. :)

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Yeah, I read the thread talking about "how many stages?". Makes sense that the 4096-stage one would be sounding "too lush" or however they put it.
In a similar manner, the 'buckets' in the bbd are capacitors and the signal passed into the bbd is moved from one stage to the next at some predetermined rate.
Right, hence the Doepfer page talking about it being essentially a series of chained S&H units, which are also just a capacitor. Starting to understand all this considerably better now.

So to distill my original request, I guess it's just for a killer delay.

Or please Urs, just deface this Mona Lisa with a "Karplus-Strong module" that completely doesn't match the interface...please make it a black module with no patch points, an LCD readout, the color scheme from a DX7, and several plasticky-looking buttons and knobs to set the routing and adjust the amount of Karplusness.

:P

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porfiry wrote:...Karplusness.
:uhuhuh: "Karplusion"

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I have some kind of Karplus syndrome something or other in my hand from mousing out so many synth patches.

Kind of a weird coincidence.

EDIT: on a related note, I'd like to revise my module request to make sure there's a giant knob allowing the user to decide precisely how Strong he'd like his Karplusion. I don't see how it would work otherwise.

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porfiry wrote:So to distill my original request, I guess it's just for a killer delay.
As you wish

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I am aware of the existence of this device, but I don't believe it can be patched into any point in the modular, only at the end of the chain.

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porfiry wrote:I am aware of the existence of this device, but I don't believe it can be patched into any point in the modular, only at the end of the chain.
No, it can't but that isn't necessarily as big a limitation as one might think.

I'm a big believer in Urs' vision, I think he knows what he's doing. Personally, I think a module with a big knob labeled "Stonger Karplusion" would be a tad out of place in this synth. It would be nice to have a delay line modeled after a bbd or even one of those old 12bit Roland DDLs (RPS-10, DDS-20 and such) in the Berlin Modular but if it doesn't happen, I'll be just as happy with MFM2, Zebrify or my analogue BBDs for physmo action. Using modular hosts these devices can have more than enough flexibility to get the results you desire. :)

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justin3am wrote:I think he knows what he's doing
Thanks.

I usually know what I'm doing at the time I'm doing it. I hardly know the day before though, or two days later. There's however some rough idea that ties things together, like a rug would in a room.

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justin3am wrote:I'm a big believer in Urs' vision, I think he knows what he's doing...I think a module with a big knob labeled "Stonger Karplusion" would be a tad out of place in this synth.
You're not responding to someone who disagrees with that in any way...perhaps the lack of emoticons didn't make the total sarcasm plain enough.
It would be nice to have a delay line modeled after a bbd or even one of those old 12bit Roland DDLs (RPS-10, DDS-20 and such) in the Berlin Modular...
Right. And like you, if it doesn't get thrown in there, it's not going to make me remotely unhappy with this instrument that already makes me extremely happy.

I'm a longtime drummer, singer/songwriter, rhythm guitarist and crappy keyboard player who's not going to try and convince anyone he's the least bit knowledgeable about synths, despite being in the middle of months of completely immersive study of them. Just trying to learn stuff and make cool shit, man. :)

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porfiry wrote:
justin3am wrote:I'm a big believer in Urs' vision, I think he knows what he's doing...I think a module with a big knob labeled "Stonger Karplusion" would be a tad out of place in this synth.
You're not responding to someone who disagrees with that in any way...perhaps the lack of emoticons didn't make the total sarcasm plain enough.
Sorry, I may need to adjust my humor threshold. :hihi: I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. No offense was intended. :)
Last edited by justin3am on Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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No worries. I just found Howard's Karplusion funny, and I picked it up and ran with it.

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Urs wrote:
justin3am wrote:I think he knows what he's doing
Thanks.

I usually know what I'm doing at the time I'm doing it. I hardly know the day before though, or two days later. There's however some rough idea that ties things together, like a rug would in a room.

Is it just me, or does the above read like a page ripped straight out of Beckett?

Sorry, wrong era...let me try again here....


Is it just me, or does the above read like a page ripped straight out of PKD?

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Urs wrote:There's however some rough idea that ties things together, like a rug would in a room.
The Dude wrote:That rug really tied the room together.
8)

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:oops:

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i just downloaded the alpha version
I am camping in the mountains with my VW Van (took ages to download with my
cellphone connection)
however firt tests with my laptop are wonderful!!!
I can't wait to have this!!!

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